Who Is Horse Of The Year?

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

It really isn't much of a debate. Was Raven's Pass the Horse of The Year last year....or Well Armed this year....I love Zenyatta but her campaign doesn't even come close to Rachel's.

CSC is not debating, he's Rachel hating. Hes already been exposed, the hating started last summer. I think that one of Jackson's wines game him a tummy ache or Assman snubed him for an autograph at the track.
We all know Rachel deserves HOY, there shouldn't even be a discussion.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by kgar311

CSC is not debating, he's Rachel hating. Hes already been exposed, the hating started last summer. I think that one of Jackson's wines game him a tummy ache or Assman snubed him for an autograph at the track.
We all know Rachel deserves HOY, there shouldn't even be a discussion.

Funny how anyone who doesn't agree with the notion that RA is the definitive HOY is termed a 'hater'. I don't see this sort of defensive mechanism from the Zenyatta backers. What does this speak of to some of her fanbase?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by CSC

Funny how anyone who doesn't agree with the notion that RA is the definitive HOY is termed a 'hater'. I don't see this sort of defensive mechanism from the Zenyatta backers. What does this speak of some of her fanbase?

Even more odd, what does it say about those of us who appreciate both?

I wish the Eclipse vote was tomorrow.

[randallscott35]

How does thinking Rachel was obviously horse of the year mean you don't appreciate both? Of course I appreciate a horse like Zenyatta. I love her....but the question is not who has the biggest cheering section, its who was Horse of the Year. And that is clearly Rachel for 2009.

[Travis Stone]

Ultimately, I think it's a question of whether or not you want to call it Horse of the Year, or Horse of the Race. Horse of the Year is Rachel Alexandra, for she did amazing things throughout the year. Horse of the Race is Zenyatta, because she won the big race of the season.

I think the kicker is that Eclipse Awards go well beyond 'What have you done for me lately?' People are also forgetting the impact Rachel Alexandra had when she did her thing and how she was a hot topic on Twitter, ESPN and on the front pages of newspapers.

Also, testing an older filly/mare against males is not as bold and exciting as testing a 3-year-old filly against older males. That's insane... we'll probably never see that again.

Season ending honors are about results and the big picture. I give Zenyatta double bonus points for winning the BC Classic, but Rachel won the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward. She traveled, she tried and she conquered. The race is a photo finish but Rachel's nose is down first... Zenyatta closed hard, but needed one more jump to get there.

Yeah, if there ever was a year for co-Horse of the Years, this is it. But by doing so you do recognize a horse for having never left her comfort zone. Kind of risky, but forgettable. You also recognize a horse for skipping the championships, kind of lame, but understandable.

Interestingly, how big does the scratch at Churchill seem now. If Zenyatta had won on Derby weekend, what does that do to this debate? Interesting stuff to consider.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Even more odd, what does it say about those of us who appreciate both?

I wish the Eclipse vote was tomorrow.

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You have to admit, you openly questioned whether she was better than Summer Bird even after she destroyed him in the Haskell. You've constantly nit-picked her campaign and went so far as to say her resume should be downgraded a tad because she didn't run in the Derby for her prior connections.

It's one thing to think she's the definitive pick for HOTY, it's another to think Zenyatta is, but both of their accomplishments speak for themselves. I think it's a little too convenient for you, or anyone else who engages in it, to question why Rachel ran in the Preakness rather than Belmont and the Woodward rather than Travers but just assume that Zenyatta gets a pass on the joke of a schedule she had because she won the Classic.

NT

I've always maintained what RA had accomplished up until Sept 5 was HOY worthy, my beef if you can call it a beef is I only wish she had raced the entire year where most horses are primed for a championship run, or more precisely in the JCGC or the BC. Up until that point she was the deserved choice for HOY barring a performance that could supercede her resume later in the yr. This is the chance her connections took when you call it a year with almost 4 months left on the racing calendar, well to be more accurate 3 months and 3 weeks, I don't see the hate in this thinking, I saw that performance from Zenyatta last Saturday and she would be my vote not only because I believe she would have beaten RA(yeah I know we will never know, but she didn't run for whatever reasons you want to believe) in the Classic had she run but the way in which she won the race, which was very decisive.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by CSC

I've always maintained what RA had accomplished up until Sept 5 was HOY worthy, my beef if you can call it a beef is I only wish she had raced the entire year where most horses are primed for a championship run, or more precisely in the JCGC or the BC. Up until that point she was the deserved choice for HOY barring a performance that would supercede later in the yr. This is the chance her connections took when you call it a year with almost 4 months left on the racing calendar, well to be more accurate 3 months and 3 weeks, I don't see the hate in this thinking, I saw that performance from Zenyatta and she would be my vote not only because I believe she would have beaten RA in the Classic had she run but the way in which she won the race, which was decisive.

Rachel started in January, Zenyatta started in... you can't hold it against Rachel.

Also, assuming who would beat who is weak when you're talking about recognizing results. It's not the "Horse of the Year If X Would Have Happened."

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Rachel started in January, Zenyatta started in... you can't hold it against Rachel.

Also, assuming who would beat who is weak when you're talking about recognizing results. It's not the "Horse of the Year If X Would Have Happened."

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

Have you applied the same scrutiny to Zenyatta's schedule?

NT

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by CSC

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran the just one more race after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

You are basically asking for the impossible from one horse, but giving the other a complete pass at anything resembling a legitimate race schedule. You must have been a big fan of Southern Image and Kip Deville.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time

Color me just a little shy of being able to believe that. If the campaign she had didn't impress you, and has left with you with so many uncountable knocks on her, nothing she could have done would have impressed you.

[kgar311]

If Zenyatta had run and won in the Pacific Classic instead of ducking that race I think the HOY voting would be alot closer. But she was ducking the males all year. RA ducked no one and took on all challenges HOY

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by kgar311

If Zenyatta had run and won in the Pacific Classic instead of ducking that race I think the HOY voting would be alot closer.

I actually think the scales tip at that point towards Zenyatta. All she needed to do in hindsight was one more 'outside the box' thing.

[pick4]

Rachel Alexandra won an American Classic when she broke from post 13 to win the Preakness. This was two weeks after she won the Kentucky Oaks by 20 lengths. She set a stakes record in winning the Mother Goose. It was a lightning fast track that day but she ran very well. She beat males again in the Grade 1 Haskell when she pressed a hat pace and dusted the probable 3 year old colt of the year. Her Woodward win against older males while running hard every step of the race was sensational.

Zenyatta is a great horse and is a sure thing 1st ballot Hall of Famer. However her acheivements this season fall short of what Rachel Alexandra's.
Zenyatta was great in winning the BC Classic but it was on her home track. She's a monster on synthetic race tracks. She might be just as good on dirt tracks. Unfortunately all we have is just the 08 Apple Blossom.
While her Classic victory was pretty good look at who ran second and third. It was two grass horses.

If I was a voter I would select Rachel Alexandra for HOF. Hopefully the voters have a few more weeks to move on and have time to consider the whole year and what each horse has accomplished.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by CSC

Funny how anyone who doesn't agree with the notion that RA is the definitive HOY is termed a 'hater'. I don't see this sort of defensive mechanism from the Zenyatta backers. What does this speak of to some of her fanbase?

Seriously, dude? Every post of yours about Rachel Alexandra, whether comparing her to Summer Bird pre-Breeders Cup or Zenyatta post, has been the epitome of defense mechanism.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Funny how anyone who doesn't agree with the notion that RA is the definitive HOY is termed a 'hater'. I don't see this sort of defensive mechanism from the Zenyatta backers. What does this speak of to some of her fanbase?

You have to admit, you openly questioned whether she was better than Summer Bird even after she destroyed him in the Haskell. You've constantly nit-picked her campaign and went so far as to say her resume should be downgraded a tad because she didn't run in the Derby for her prior connections.

It's one thing to think she's the definitive pick for HOTY, it's another to think Zenyatta is, but both of their accomplishments speak for themselves. I think it's a little too convenient for you, or anyone else who engages in it, to question why Rachel ran in the Preakness rather than Belmont and the Woodward rather than Travers but just assume that Zenyatta gets a pass on the joke of a schedule she had because she won the Classic.

NT

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

to question why Rachel ran in the Preakness rather than Belmont and the Woodward rather than Travers but just assume that Zenyatta gets a pass on the joke of a schedule she had because she won the Classic.

NT