Top 5 best two-surface horses of the last 20 years

RockHardTen1985 · #1 10-22-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

I was a huge fan of his, but he was a cut below the really good ones of this decade. he showed up and ran like 3 really good races, but apart from that he was just pretty good.

PP had fell way off that year. Azeri was overmatched... The best horse Ghostzapper ever beat IMO was Roses in May. How good was he? Im not sure... Perfect Drift almost beat him, and he seemed to always get easy trips. I think Saint Liam beat him and I think RHT was WAY BETTER THEN SAINT LIAM.

NTamm1215 · #2 10-22-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

PP had fell way off that year. Azeri was overmatched... The best horse Ghostzapper ever beat IMO was Roses in May. How good was he? Im not sure... Perfect Drift almost beat him, and he seemed to always get easy trips. I think Saint Liam beat him and I think RHT was WAY BETTER THEN SAINT LIAM.

Yeah, he had really fallen apart in 2004 having only won the Dubai World Cup and Pacific Classic.

Rock Hard Ten would have been butt-hurt by Saint Liam in the 2005 BC Classic. I only wish he had run so that the hysteria with him could stop. By far and away one of the most overrated horses in the last ten years.

NT

RockHardTen1985 · #3 10-22-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Yeah, he had really fallen apart in 2004 having only won the Dubai World Cup and Pacific Classic.

Rock Hard Ten would have been butt-hurt by Saint Liam in the 2005 BC Classic. I only wish he had run so that the hysteria with him could stop. By far and away one of the most overrated horses in the last ten years.

NT

O god... He beat him head to head--- Actually crushed him... Saint Liam ran 1 really good race in his career IMO and HE LOST IT. Lets not forget getting popped by Commentator.

RockHardTen1985 · #4 10-22-2009, 04:00 PM

So who was better, Point Given or Bernardini? This is a hard one for me, because they are 2 of the top 10 I have ever watched race. If I had to pick I would say Bernardini.

The Indomitable DrugS · #5 10-22-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So who was better, Point Given or Bernardini? This is a hard one for me, because they are 2 of the top 10 I have ever watched race. If I had to pick I would say Bernardini.

Another one with no right or wrong answer... and probably unanswerable.

slotdirt · #6 10-22-2009, 04:16 PM

I'm trying to find the famine in Formal Gold's post-Dubai World Cup 1997 season.

http://community.drf.com/formblog/files/formal_gold.pdf

The Indomitable DrugS · #7 10-22-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm trying to find the famine in Formal Gold's post-Dubai World Cup 1997 season.

http://community.drf.com/formblog/files/formal_gold.pdf

Post World Cup was the feast part... especially the end.

Cannon Shell · #8 10-22-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm trying to find the famine in Formal Gold's post-Dubai World Cup 1997 season.

http://community.drf.com/formblog/files/formal_gold.pdf

I didnt realize he was a Canadian bred

Sightseek · #9 10-22-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Rock Hard Ten would have been butt-hurt by Saint Liam in the 2005 BC Classic. I only wish he had run so that the hysteria with him could stop. By far and away one of the most overrated horses in the last ten years.

NT

I would have given you more, but they limit images!

RockHardTen1985 · #10 10-22-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I would have given you more, but they limit images!

Head to Head he beat him...

King Glorious · #11 10-22-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Head to Head he beat him...

Apparently, head to head means nothing. I guess next we are going to read again that Easy Goer was better than Sunday Silence. Or maybe better than that, we can read how Summer Bird is better than Rachel Alexandra. Rock Hard Ten beat the hell out of St. Liam but St. Liam was so much better. Got it.

NTamm1215 · #12 10-22-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Apparently, head to head means nothing. I guess next we are going to read again that Easy Goer was better than Sunday Silence. Or maybe better than that, we can read how Summer Bird is better than Rachel Alexandra. Rock Hard Ten beat the hell out of St. Liam but St. Liam was so much better. Got it.

Saint Liam was beaten by Rock Hard Ten in his backyard. Rock Hard Ten was completely useless outside of California and that is a huge mark against him with me. The SA Handicap was clearly the only real blemish on Saint Liam's record as his only other loss during the entire campaign was to Commentator in the race of that horse's life. He was there when it counted and he performed at a high level.

Rock Hard Ten was overrated from the time he broke his maiden. Everyone latched onto him on the Derby Trail and the DQ in the SA Derby added to his appeal because it led to his exclusion at CD. As a 4YO he was good, sure, but he also hardly ran. The SA Handicap was a solid race but His Goodwood was the ultimate unimpressive race to me as he and Roman Ruler had cupcake trips and he capitalized.

When Saint Liam ran in the SA Handicap he was coming off a very handy win in the Donn where he BURIED the Dubai World Cup winner.

So, yes, RHT might have won the only head to head matchup but I still think Saint Liam was better. RHT, like Candy Ride but to a greater extent, is held in high regard because of potential more so than substance IMO.

NT

King Glorious · #13 10-22-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Saint Liam was beaten by Rock Hard Ten in his backyard. Rock Hard Ten was completely useless outside of California and that is a huge mark against him with me. The SA Handicap was clearly the only real blemish on Saint Liam's record as his only other loss during the entire campaign was to Commentator in the race of that horse's life. He was there when it counted and he performed at a high level.

Rock Hard Ten was overrated from the time he broke his maiden. Everyone latched onto him on the Derby Trail and the DQ in the SA Derby added to his appeal because it led to his exclusion at CD. As a 4YO he was good, sure, but he also hardly ran. The SA Handicap was a solid race but His Goodwood was the ultimate unimpressive race to me as he and Roman Ruler had cupcake trips and he capitalized.

When Saint Liam ran in the SA Handicap he was coming off a very handy win in the Donn where he BURIED the Dubai World Cup winner.

So, yes, RHT might have won the only head to head matchup but I still think Saint Liam was better. RHT, like Candy Ride but to a greater extent, is held in high regard because of potential more so than substance IMO.

NT

I get that and don't disagree with a lot of it. I actually wasn't all that taken with RHT myself. But I was even less taken with SL. I never thought either of them was that much of a horse. Everyone made a huge deal of St. Liam because of how well he ran against Ghostzapper in the Woodward. Nobody gives any credit to Peace Rules though and PR handled him twice earlier in the year. For me, it was a close decision on which one of them deserved to be the top older male and in a tight vote, I'd give the advantage to the one that beat the other. I've never understood the argument that a horse didn't run enough. Good is good, whether it's three races or 30. If a horse wins the Kentucky Derby, Woodward, and BC Classic in his only three races of the year, is he only held in high regard because of his potential? Hell no. That's a good horse.

RolloTomasi · #14 10-22-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

When Saint Liam ran in the SA Handicap he was coming off a very handy win in the Donn where he BURIED the Dubai World Cup winner.

Similarly, Formal Gold was a ho-hum 5th in the Big Cap (to Siphon, Sandpit, and Gentlemen) after a big win in the Donn (over Skip Away) before going on to greater glory.

To be fair, RHT was unbeaten at 4 and never got an opportunity to ship. Can't remember why he had the spring/summer off.

I think he might have shipped to Belmont but came up with a "foot" issue or whatever. Considering the moderate Classic field that year (30-1 Flower Alley was 2nd), it might have been a decent matchup.

The Indomitable DrugS · #15 10-23-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Rock Hard Ten was completely useless outside of California and that is a huge mark against him with me.

He was also trained by the immortal Jason Orman as a 3yo.

He is to top class training what Sumitas is to top class message boarding.