NYT: Drugs & I Want Revenge

[gamblin4ever]

I don't know much about the inner workings of horse racing (ownership,training). But,it sounds as if IEAH made a bad investment, purchased in March and horse starts ailing in April. The vets make it sound like a normal day leading up to the race with the work that was done on him.
Rules should be in place for horses running clean on race day. No meds in the horses system at all. If found in system fines,penalties and/or suspensions enforced. Please advise if i'm missing something.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gamblin4ever

I don't know much about the inner workings of horse racing (ownership,training). But,it sounds as if IEAH made a bad investment, purchased in March and horse starts ailing in April. The vets make it sound like a normal day leading up to the race with the work that was done on him.
Rules should be in place for horses running clean on race day. No meds in the horses system at all. If found in system fines,penalties and/or suspensions enforced. Please advise if i'm missing something.

Define clean. No meds in a horses system? Define no meds. What levels? What limits? It just isnt that simple.

[gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Define clean. No meds in a horses system? Define no meds. What levels? What limits? It just isnt that simple.

No lasix,Bute or anything. No drugs at all. Like in my 1st post i dont know if these are truly needed,how do they help a horse or anything the like. But it seems to me that a horse that bleeds should not run until the problem is fixed instead of given Lasix as example. Couldn't we have rules like Europe no drugs in system on race day. I admit i don't know much about that stuff but horses racing w/o drugs seems best to me. Thanks for your input Chuck as you know a heck of alot more than me on the subject.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gamblin4ever

No lasix,Bute or anything. No drugs at all. Like in my 1st post i dont know if these are truly needed,how do they help a horse or anything the like. But it seems to me that a horse that bleeds should not run until the problem is fixed instead of given Lasix as example. Couldn't we have rules like Europe no drugs in system on race day. I admit i don't know much about that stuff but horses racing w/o drugs seems best to me. Thanks for your input Chuck as you know a heck of alot more than me on the subject.

The problem is that you need to have some baselines, guidelines, etc. The tests now are sophisticated enough to pick up minute doses of just about anything if they are looking for it. The problem with the rules is that in many cases finding something in a horses system and its ability to actual affect performance are totally different animals. What we are doing now is simply detecting the presence of a substance with no regard to its effectiveness. Which is not only a huge waste of time and resources but gives off the false impression that every horse is pumped full of drugs every time there is a positive. I am NOT saying that some arent or that certain trainers and/or vets arent going over the line. But all this nonsense about eliminating Lasix is so far off base that I cant believe we continue to even debate it. Lasix is an effective treatment for the deficiency of bleeding in horses. There is no one reason why horses bleed. There really is no prevention. And to want to ban its use, especially when it finally has a university test that proves what we already knew, it works, is spiteful and damaging for the horses. The idea that bleeding is some how bred into or can be bred out of horses is stupid.

I also dont believe that European racing and especially Australian racing is all that clean either. The majority of "hops" that have been used over the years were developed and first used outside of the US. The only place that probably has as close to totally clean racing (in terms of medication) as any place is Hong Kong. And there is virtually no way to duplicate their set up.

[randallscott35]

Horses do just fine without lasix in Europe Chuck.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Horses do just fine without lasix in Europe Chuck.

Well then lets just have all racing in Europe! And why do so many horses improve when they come here and use Lasix? Maybe because they were bleeding?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well then lets just have all racing in Europe! And why do so many horses improve when they come here and use Lasix? Maybe because they were bleeding?

What's your point? Lasix isn't natural. If we went to hay and oats and no lasix I wouldn't care if a ton of horses couldn't run. We need a healthy breed. Not the best bleeders around....And the bigger isssue is lasix is a masking agent.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Horses do just fine without lasix in Europe Chuck.

There they run a tiny fraction of the number of race held here and the ones that bleed get sent to the US. The one's who's owners can't afford to send them here send them to France to be processed into spam. One ugly secret is that a far higher percentage of European TB's end up on dinner plates and dog bowls than here in the US.

[gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem is that you need to have some baselines, guidelines, etc. The tests now are sophisticated enough to pick up minute doses of just about anything if they are looking for it. The problem with the rules is that in many cases finding something in a horses system and its ability to actual affect performance are totally different animals. What we are doing now is simply detecting the presence of a substance with no regard to its effectiveness. Which is not only a huge waste of time and resources but gives off the false impression that every horse is pumped full of drugs every time there is a positive. I am NOT saying that some arent or that certain trainers and/or vets arent going over the line. But all this nonsense about eliminating Lasix is so far off base that I cant believe we continue to even debate it. Lasix is an effective treatment for the deficiency of bleeding in horses. There is no one reason why horses bleed. There really is no prevention. And to want to ban its use, especially when it finally has a university test that proves what we already knew, it works, is spiteful and damaging for the horses. The idea that bleeding is some how bred into or can be bred out of horses is stupid.

I also dont believe that European racing and especially Australian racing is all that clean either. The majority of "hops" that have been used over the years were developed and first used outside of the US. The only place that probably has as close to totally clean racing (in terms of medication) as any place is Hong Kong. And there is virtually no way to duplicate their set up.

Thanks for explaining, it just seems too many trainers use Lasix on horses to believe that many horses bleed even on FTS. Thanks again for explaining the reasoning.

[randallscott35]

If horses couldn't use lasix you wouldn't breed bleeders. Simple as that.

[richard]

"Corticosteroids can be injected into joints and have therapeutic value. They also are prevalent at American tracks, and often given within days of a race, especially in the sport’s lower levels where sore horses must make it to the starting gate."

The "therapeutic value" I have no problem with . The part about using them so that "sore horses make it to the starting gate" is troubling.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

If horses couldn't use lasix you wouldn't breed bleeders. Simple as that.

How anyone could have as clear a view of economics as you and still post something like this is amazing. It is like saying if we got rid of antibiotics, no one would ever get sick.

"Bleeding" isnt a physical characteristic of a horse anymore than a cold is a physical characteristic of a human. Total crock.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

. And there is virtually no way to duplicate their set up.

Explain??

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Explain??

One backside, two tracks, complete surveillance 24 hours a day, vets work for Jockey Club, small horse population, good weather, no due process, trainers/owners limited numbers, form stewards, gigantic budget.