If Zenyatta wins the Classic

King Glorious · #1 09-24-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I agree that Curlin was not the same horse towards the end of last year. But wasn't Curlin, a confirmed grinder who never really had a terrific burst of speed as his career wore on, asked to do something in the Classic that he was incapable of doing on any surface?

I thought Raven's Pass clearly the best horse that day but a big part of that was that he got the best ride. Dettori rode a perfect race and tactically knew that he had a chance if Curlin moved first.

I am just not willing to say that Zenyatta beating Summer Bird (a horse who trained so poorly over synthetic that his trainer gave him away) and Mine That Bird (who ran last over this very surface a year ago) is going to boost her HOY credentials because she will have beaten horses who Rachel beat as well.

NT

In addition, who knows which of the Europeans will take to it? I admit that I didn't even take the surface into consideration when making that argument. I have no idea why that slipped my mind. However, even beating Rail Trip and Einstein, who are both confirmed on the surface, would be more impressive to me than beating either of the Bird horses or Macho Again.

Cannon Shell · #2 09-24-2009, 10:53 PM

Jesus, Zenyatta has zero chance of winning the classic. She will be standing in her stall when the race is run. not to mention there is little chance that Sea the stars is coming either. If Kickin n Screamin wins on Monday and then wins the Distaff turf or whatever the call the fillies turf race is she champpion turf mare?

copying · #3 09-24-2009, 11:42 PM

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

King Glorious · #4 09-25-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

You might want to consider never posting again.

Danzig · #5 09-25-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

You might want to consider never posting again.

why? i'd hate to never read hilarity like that again.

Antitrust32 · #6 09-25-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

You might want to consider never posting again.

letswastemoney · #7 09-25-2009, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

Wow! RA is one smart filly to have all that knowledge inside of her!

zippyneedsawin · #8 09-25-2009, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

So I guess Zenyatta is the California verison of Peppers Pride?

copying · #9 09-26-2009, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

So I guess Zenyatta is the California verison of Peppers Pride?

Not hardly... Zenyatta has beaten the best of the west. Then she went to Oaklawn and drilled the best of the east (defending champ Ginger Punch). Then she went in the championship race and beat the best the world had to throw against her.

RA barely held off Macho Again? LOL

C'mon Jess, maybe she is good enough to compete with the best in the world???? Give her a chance.

dean smith · #10 09-26-2009, 06:45 AM

I think it's funny that it is near-unanimous that in a one-on-one match race, Zenyatta would have zero chance of beating RA, when it seems to me that the better horse would be able to get from Point A to Point B in faster time. Zenyatta's success is dependant on the pace of the rest of the field. RA dictates that pace and runs them off their feet. Someone has got to explain to me how a stretch runner who has run four times against nobodies has a chance to win HOY over a monster who has laid waste to the best thrown at her eight times.

Danzig · #11 09-26-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean smith

I think it's funny that it is near-unanimous that in a one-on-one match race, Zenyatta would have zero chance of beating RA, when it seems to me that the better horse would be able to get from Point A to Point B in faster time. Zenyatta's success is dependant on the pace of the rest of the field. RA dictates that pace and runs them off their feet. Someone has got to explain to me how a stretch runner who has run four times against nobodies has a chance to win HOY over a monster who has laid waste to the best thrown at her eight times.

match races don't necessarily tell you which horse is better, since match races are generally won by whomever breaks best. the one in front dictates the entire race. do you really believe seabiscuit was a superior horse to war admiral? assault vs armed...swaps and nashua? a closer is doomed, because the leader can dawdle, keeping plenty in reserve for the finish.

Danzig · #12 09-26-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

Not hardly... Zenyatta has beaten the best of the west. Then she went to Oaklawn and drilled the best of the east (defending champ Ginger Punch). Then she went in the championship race and beat the best the world had to throw against her.

RA barely held off Macho Again? LOL

C'mon Jess, maybe she is good enough to compete with the best in the world???? Give her a chance.

all true, and all occurred last year, and has NO bearing on this year whatsoever. zenyatta was all out to win by a scant nose in her last vs the same lackluster competition she faced in her first couple races this year. could someone remind me of the top efforts from zenyatta's defeated foes in their other races this year? rachel had no breather from beginning to end, and accomplished a feat far superior to anything zenyatta has done all year, in winning her last vs open competition. if anyone could remind me when zenyatta has ever done the same, i would appreciate it. oh, wait...that's right-that would be never, since it's never even been tried.

copying · #13 09-26-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

all true, and all occurred last year, and has NO bearing on this year whatsoever. zenyatta was all out to win by a scant nose in her last vs the same lackluster competition she faced in her first couple races this year. could someone remind me of the top efforts from zenyatta's defeated foes in their other races this year? rachel had no breather from beginning to end, and accomplished a feat far superior to anything zenyatta has done all year, in winning her last vs open competition. if anyone could remind me when zenyatta has ever done the same, i would appreciate it. oh, wait...that's right-that would be never, since it's never even been tried.

It was open competition but remember what that competition was. This is from the DFR's comments before the race:

[i]Seriously, though, this should be the biggest test since the Preakness, not because these G1 'cappers are so great, but because several are decent,[/I]

johnny pinwheel · #14 09-27-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

Not hardly... Zenyatta has beaten the best of the west. Then she went to Oaklawn and drilled the best of the east (defending champ Ginger Punch). Then she went in the championship race and beat the best the world had to throw against her.

RA barely held off Macho Again? LOL

C'mon Jess, maybe she is good enough to compete with the best in the world???? Give her a chance.

you leave out the part where she won the haskell and the preakness while zenyatta was beating the usual suspects. zenyatta beat ginger punch when she was a step or two slower. this year shes beat practically no one. RA has also won in evey part of the country except the west coast. i f you ask me zenyatta is more of a peppers pride. she has not been in a race shes supposed to lose! she would of had a great shot in the woodward. the pace was perfect for her. if the connections wanted to nail HOY, they would of showed up. just sitting there racing scrubs saying you are the best because you win, doesn't cut it. i doubt she even runs in the classic because she would probably get trounced. RA is real good and as far as i can see the best horse at 9 furlongs in the country. you are arguing with some people that think shes better than ruffian, thats when i start to laugh.

copying · #15 09-27-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

you leave out the part where she won the haskell and the preakness while zenyatta was beating the usual suspects. zenyatta beat ginger punch when she was a step or two slower. this year shes beat practically no one. RA has also won in evey part of the country except the west coast. i f you ask me zenyatta is more of a peppers pride. she has not been in a race shes supposed to lose! she would of had a great shot in the woodward. the pace was perfect for her. if the connections wanted to nail HOY, they would of showed up. just sitting there racing scrubs saying you are the best because you win, doesn't cut it. i doubt she even runs in the classic because she would probably get trounced. RA is real good and as far as i can see the best horse at 9 furlongs in the country. you are arguing with some people that think shes better than ruffian, thats when i start to laugh.

Z is on a course prepping to be on the track on Championship day as their plans were long ago announced. You think the Woodward was that day?
RA's nose win over the DRF's described field of "several decent runners" was HOY material? How laughable...

I've never claimed Z to be superhorse, I'm just saying RA hasn't done anything to stake that claim.

NTamm1215 · #16 09-25-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

You're right, I wish RA was owned by Jerry Moss. It would have been scintillating all summer to see her win the Acorn by 20, the Mother Goose by 20, the CCA Oaks by potentially 40 lengths and then the Alabama. Who needs a horse who takes on all different rivals, beats them at their game all the while showing unprecedented speed, courage, and tenacity?

I'd much prefer a horse who faces absolute nobodies all year in a virtually identical campaign to the one they had the prior year.

Fault Rachel Alexandra for having a trainer with a spotty record or an owner who didn't breed her (as if that's a problem) but IMO if you really believe what you posted above you are the type of person that makes this game still playable, provided you bet with the same horrendous opinions.

NT

johnny pinwheel · #17 09-25-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

yeah, theres some real monsters out there. i'm sure lava man coming back is shaking in his shoes.