Injury Ends career of Pioneerof the Nile

freddymo · #1 07-09-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

speightstown is the biggest fabricated overpriced stallion out there. Unless he really changes his tune, hes good for nothing but the occasional precocious speed, and will rarely produce classic distance runners.

Munnings does look good at the moment. He's on my vulcher list but he looks good right now.

I really don't no what to say here. If Speightstown was half the horse that he has emerged as a sire then we would have been blessed to see him race. Speightstown was a nice G1 colt.. Speightstown first crop have been amazing , I wish I had one, everybody wants one.. You guys are clueless if you dont realize that Speightstown is here to stay in a VERY BIG WAY

Rupert Pupkin · #2 07-09-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

I really don't no what to say here. If Speightstown was half the horse that he has emerged as a sire then we would have been blessed to see him race. Speightstown was a nice G1 colt.. Speightstown first crop have been amazing , I wish I had one, everybody wants one.. You guys are clueless if you dont realize that Speightstown is here to stay in a VERY BIG WAY

They are definitely runners and they are certainly precocious.

I guess it just depends what you are looking for. I think Forestry is a pretty good sire but he is expensive and it is unlikely that he is going to produce a Derby winner. If a person is looking for a good miler, Forestry is a good choice. But if you're looking to win the Derby, I would look elsewhere. I think that may have been Bobby's point with Speighstown. I think he was saying that if he was going to spend big money, he would at least want a horse that might be able to win the Derby.

I personally liked the way the Speighstowns worked at the sales last year. After FT Calder last year, I posted here that the two freshman sires I was most impressed with were Lion Heart and Speighstown. Even though The Speighstowns were very fast and were very nice movers, some of the conformation experts thought they could have soundness issues.

From the 2 year old sales this year my favorite freshman sire was Rock Hard Ten. I thought most of them had a really nice way of going. There are some other freshman sires that look a little more precocious but overall I liked RHT the best.

Merlinsky · #3 07-09-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Even though The Speighstowns were very fast and were very nice movers, some of the conformation experts thought they could have soundness issues.

Can you refresh my memory what was wrong with them to suggest soundness issues? I know I've heard, but I'm drawing a blank.

Rupert Pupkin · #4 07-09-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Can you refresh my memory what was wrong with them to suggest soundness issues? I know I've heard, but I'm drawing a blank.

I'm not a conformation expert. I just strictly rely on the videos. It was a couple of our trainers that thought they didn't look very sound. I don't remember if there was a specific issue that they all seemed to have or if they just didn't look very sturdy. When I get a chance, I'll ask them what they didn't like about them.

Rupert Pupkin · #5 07-10-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Can you refresh my memory what was wrong with them to suggest soundness issues? I know I've heard, but I'm drawing a blank.

I asked a friend of mine what the issue was with the Speighstowns. He said there wasn't necessarily one specific thing but he said they tend to have offset knees and they also tend to tow out a little bit. In addition, he said they tend to have these big, heavy bodies. It can be tough for a horse with a big, heavy body to stay sound if he's got crooked legs.

freddymo · #6 07-10-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I asked a friend of mine what the issue was with the Speighstowns. He said there wasn't necessarily one specific thing but he said they tend to have offset knees and they also tend to tow out a little bit. In addition, he said they tend to have these big, heavy bodies. It can be tough for a horse with a big, heavy body to stay sound if he's got crooked legs.

Seems to me they are pretty fn fast

Rupert Pupkin · #7 07-10-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Seems to me they are pretty fn fast

There is no doubt about that. They are fast. I guess he and Tapit both have the same stud fee right now. They both stand for $35,000.

freddymo · #8 07-09-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

They are definitely runners and they are certainly precocious.

I guess it just depends what you are looking for. I think Forestry is a pretty good sire but he is expensive and it is unlikely that he is going to produce a Derby winner. If a person is looking for a good miler, Forestry is a good choice. But if you're looking to win the Derby, I would look elsewhere. I think that may have been Bobby's point with Speighstown. I think he was saying that if he was going to spend big money, he would at least want a horse that might be able to win the Derby.

I personally liked the way the Speighstowns worked at the sales last year. After FT Calder last year, I posted here that the two freshman sires I was most impressed with were Lion Heart and Speighstown. Even though The Speighstowns were very fast and were very nice movers, some of the conformation experts thought they could have soundness issues.

From the 2 year old sales this year my favorite freshman sire was Rock Hard Ten. I thought most of them had a really nice way of going. There are some other freshman sires that look a little more precocious but overall I liked RHT the best.

I tell you what...In the last 5 years there hasn't been a sire as hot as Speightstown.. I remember a race on Oaks day it was a NW1x and it featured 5 Speightstoen all of which looked like likely Graded winners in the futurs all of which had 80 plus BSF in there brief career.. this stallion book was ok nothing super special, which his current success he will attract a better book and likely more router types.. I hated him as a horse but only a fool would ignore his current success

Sightseek · #9 07-09-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

I tell you what...In the last 5 years there hasn't been a sire as hot as Speightstown.. I remember a race on Oaks day it was a NW1x and it featured 5 Speightstoen all of which looked like likely Graded winners in the futurs all of which had 80 plus BSF in there brief career.. this stallion book was ok nothing super special, which his current success he will attract a better book and likely more router types.. I hated him as a horse but only a fool would ignore his current success

I'd say Street Cry has him beaten in the "hot" department.

freddymo · #10 07-09-2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'd say Street Cry has him beaten in the "hot" department.

I challenge...Sure Street Sense was Ok but Speightstown moved up a ton of mares ...Street Cry had a MUCH better first book then Speightstown.. Plus there a ton of Speightstowns on the track doing well and earning.. There are plenty of Street Talk's that can't run a 65 BSF.

Indian Charlie · #11 07-10-2009, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'd say Street Cry has him beaten in the "hot" department.

Smart Strike.

freddymo · #12 07-10-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Smart Strike.

Smart Strike has been around awhile and wasn't the insta sucess Speightstown and Street Cry were..That doesn't mitigate the Smart Strike is a terrific stallion and smoking hot

Rupert Pupkin · #13 07-10-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Smart Strike has been around awhile and wasn't the insta sucess Speightstown and Street Cry were..That doesn't mitigate the Smart Strike is a terrific stallion and smoking hot

Of the Freshman sires from last year, I would take Tapit in a second over Speighstown. I don't think it is any contest. I don't think Tapit's success last year was a fluke at all. I thought his 2 year olds looked great again this year at the sales.

I haven't looked at the numbers but I thought Lion Heart did better last year than Speighstown. However that could be misleading because I think Lion Heart had about 200 babies in his first year.

Rupert Pupkin · #14 07-09-2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

I tell you what...In the last 5 years there hasn't been a sire as hot as Speightstown.. I remember a race on Oaks day it was a NW1x and it featured 5 Speightstoen all of which looked like likely Graded winners in the futurs all of which had 80 plus BSF in there brief career.. this stallion book was ok nothing super special, which his current success he will attract a better book and likely more router types.. I hated him as a horse but only a fool would ignore his current success

I can't knock him. As I said, he produces runners. I think he was in the top 3 freshman sires last year along with Tapit and Lion Heart. I do think his offspring will have distance limitations but if he keeps producing horses like Munnings, I don't think anyone is going to complain.

What was your knock on him as a racehorse? I know he wasn't very sound but he had a lot of talent. When he was on he could sprint with anyone. I think he is one of the best sprinters we have had in the last 5 years.

freddymo · #15 07-09-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I can't knock him. As I said, he produces runners. I think he was in top 3 freshman sires last year along with Tapit and Lion Heart.

What was your knock on him as a racehorse? I know he wasn't very sound but he had a lot of talent. When he was on he could sprint with anyone. I think he is one of the best sprinters we have had in the last 5 years.

He just wasn't a very fast horse.. He was legit but hardily special

Bobby Fischer · #16 07-09-2009, 09:28 PM

well i looked up Speightstown, and Lord Shanakill looks like he is fairly classy and can run in G2 over in England. He's a horse that I've never heard of. I am in no way a pedigree expert, and I usually form generalizations based on when I see the pedigree in the races I happen to handicap. For all I know he could be a great sire...

Honu · #17 07-09-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

well i looked up Speightstown, and Lord Shanakill looks like he is fairly classy and can run in G2 over in England. He's a horse that I've never heard of. I am in no way a pedigree expert, and I usually form generalizations based on when I see the pedigree in the races I happen to handicap. For all I know he could be a great sire...

Lord Shanakill will be coming to the BC if everything stays ok with him.