Keeneland September Sale

Originally Posted by paisjpq

that's an interesting point mike and could explain some rather uninspiring prices on nice horses.

I was going to point out a few but could point out many more than a few who went surprisingly low, they couldnt all have been crooked.
The shock of the century was Smarty Jones full sister selling for less than 300 grand. I mean are you kidding me? If he pans out as a sire then shes worth 20 times that as a broodmare and Ed gaudet of Maryland got her.
Bottom line is that for the folks who got the big money, they love the Coolmore/Maktoum feud. But many many consignors are in mortal agony right now after getting about 1/5th- 1/2 of what they thought they would get.
I know several folks in business with big bucks who said they werent even gonna have anyone vet out or look at the yearlings in the first two days.
I honestly believe that everyone believed that anything worth having would be bought by the Sheikhs, and that it was a waste of time.
The problem is that they didn't bid on anyone who wasnt on their list, they just bid determinedly on what they did want.
The averages may go up based on the top 10 big purchases, but overall I think there are a lotta disappointed folks tonight who got lots less than they thought they would.

[Danzig]

i can't believe how low the full sis to smarty went for...she must be crooked or something.

[Danzig]

lol oops, oracle already mentione crooked and smartys sister.

but after seeing horses like wild fit go for what they went for(she of course was purchased after the bcjf for her future worth as a broodmare), i just can't get over it.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i can't believe how low the full sis to smarty went for...she must be crooked or something.

She may not have scoped well. They scope these yearlings the same way they scope the 2 year olds at the 2 year old sales. If a horse has a really bad throat, that will knock their price way down.

Another thing that can hurt the sales prices are chips. A lot of these horses have chips. Just from running around out in the pasture as yearlings, they get chips. Depending on how bad the chip is, it can have a big impact on the sales price. You would be shocked at how amny of these yearlings have chips. I don't know the exact number but it's probably somewhere around 10-20%.

[Danzig]

you would just think tho that she would have more value than that as a broodmare....i'm surprised, but probably not as surprised as her seller!

who knows, hell they can't all go for 8-10 mill...

Damned Arabs got my Storm Cat...I've been shut out again!

[sumitas]

When rich people cry poverty you know they are making money. $300k for any horse, even Smarty's sister, ain't chop liver.

[Danzig]

coolmore got a danzig as well:


Coolmore gets its Danzig


A few hours after being outbid for the sale-topping colt by Danzig, John Magnier got the other top colt from the last crop of that great sire and sire of sires, going to $5.2-million for a colt out of the Roberto mare Al Theraab. Consigned by Dave Parrish's Indian Creek as agent, the bay is half brother to two stakes winners by Danzig's best sire son Danehill.

"He's a nice Danzig, isn't he?" said Demi O'Byrne, who signed the ticket for the partnership that includes Magnier and Michael Tabor. "He's from the last crop of a great sire of sires and he's really a great deal like him."

I think its becoming obvious that the only way to now attempt to become successful in this game is to start your own breeding operation.
Very few in the game have the resources to bid as much as the Sheikh or Coolmore do on the exceptional looking/bred yearlings at sales such as this.
Instead of spending 11 million on a Kingmambo, you can buy nice mares and breed to them.
I think that the bloodstock game is shifting, and that mares are going to become more coveted than stallions, if they aren't already.
I also find it hysterical that a pinhooker spends one million on a horse with the intent to flip it at a 2Yo in training sale. Who would ever have imagined that? That a pure pinhooker would spend a million on a horse?
The only way that anyone is going to have the slightest chance to succeed against the excessive spending by the two largest players is going to be to breed their own.

[Pedigree Ann]

Racing Post headline over a photo of Dettori being led out, with a grim look on his face-

Cheer up Frankie - the boss has spent $11.7m on a new recruit!

Originally Posted by Danzig188

you would just think tho that she would have more value than that as a broodmare....i'm surprised, but probably not as surprised as her seller!

who knows, hell they can't all go for 8-10 mill...

Guys, guys, guys!!!...I'll Get Along sold a couple of years ago for many millions of dollars to the group that just sold this full to Smarty Jones....I GUARANTEE you that they knew what they were selling and had a reserve on her that was relavent to her value....that, I can assure you of.....these guys aren't stupid and they just didn't get rid of her because they needed the money....she had to have been well sold for that prce or they would not have done that, especially considering the millions they spent on I'll Get Along after Smarty's fame....

I guarantee you that she has some serious issues with her somewhere that provided for a lot of risk with her.....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Guys, guys, guys!!!...I'll Get Along sold a couple of years ago for many millions of dollars to the group that just sold this full to Smarty Jones....I GUARANTEE you that they knew what they were selling and had a reserve on her that was relavent to her value....that, I can assure you of.....these guys aren't stupid and they just didn't get rid of her because they needed the money....she had to have been well sold for that prce or they would not have done that, especially considering the millions they spent on I'll Get Along after Smarty's fame....

I guarantee you that she has some serious issues with her somewhere that provided for a lot of risk with her.....

i figured as much. i knew that the dam was snapped up when smarty hit the trail...no way this was in their plan, but it certainly happens to all those involved in this sport at some point.

[Sightseek]

I loved Smarty Jones, but he wasn't the most impressive looking horse to grace the cover of Blood-Horse. Someone said they would have picked his sister up at least for a broodmare prospect, but her progeny may or may not be all that 'commercial' in appearance. That said, if I was playing with the sort of money that most of these folks have, I'd probably bid in the hopes that lightning struck twice on the track. It's all a game of chance and luck.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

She may not have scoped well. They scope these yearlings the same way they scope the 2 year olds at the 2 year old sales. If a horse has a really bad throat, that will knock their price way down.

Another thing that can hurt the sales prices are chips. A lot of these horses have chips. Just from running around out in the pasture as yearlings, they get chips. Depending on how bad the chip is, it can have a big impact on the sales price. You would be shocked at how amny of these yearlings have chips. I don't know the exact number but it's probably somewhere around 10-20%.

It shouldn't hurt their prices too much because if a horse has a chip and you buy it then X-ray afterward and find a chip, you can turn it back and not pay for the horse....

I never X-ray horses anymore UNTIL I buy them because it cost too much money X-raying every damn horse you may be interested in....you wait and buy them and THEN you x-ray them after they get out of the ring and if they don't vet out you turn them back to the seller and don't pay....

Throats are a little different...if there is some sort of disfunction or paralysis than you can turn back a horse after you buy it and discover it has a bad throat.....yet, if you are a pinhooker and a horse has a functional throat but it may rate out as a "B" throat and not an "A" throat (the best and onlt thraots that pinhookers will buy to be able to resell the prospect down the road) then you are stuck with the horse.....

Why waste vet charges evaluating 25 horses before a sale if you are only planning on buying 3 or 4 of them that wind up fitting in your price range?...It is wasted cost and the very reason there is a turn-back policy at the sales - to protect the purchaser's risk and cost output....

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

It shouldn't hurt their prices too much because if a horse has a chip and you buy it then X-ray afterward and find a chip, you can turn it back and not pay for the horse....
I never X-ray horses anymore UNTIL I buy them because it cost too much money X-raying every damn horse you may be interested in....you wait and buy them and THEN you x-ray them after they get out of the ring and if they don't vet out you turn them back to the seller and don't pay....

....

Not At Keeneland for the yearling sale if you buy one and he has got a chip he yours. that is why every yearling has to have a set of X rays in the repository.

Now if you buy a yearling and re xray it and find a chip and that same chip is not on the consignors xrays in the repository then you can return it.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Not At Keeneland for the yearling sale if you buy one and he has got a chip he yours. that is why every yearling has to have a set of X rays in the repository.

Now if you buy a yearling and re xray it and find a chip and that same chip is not on the consignors xrays in the repository then you can return it.

I believe you are correct. They have different rules at different sales. At some sales, it is your responsibility to check the x-rays in the repository. If you don't check and then realize that the horse has a chip, it's too bad. You're stuck with the horse. You can only return the horse if they have a new injury that did not show up on the original x-rays.

At other sales, you don't need to have the horse vetted until after you buy the horse. If the horse has a fracture or chip you can void the purchase.

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Not At Keeneland for the yearling sale if you buy one and he has got a chip he yours. that is why every yearling has to have a set of X rays in the repository.

Now if you buy a yearling and re xray it and find a chip and that same chip is not on the consignors xrays in the repository then you can return it.

Yeah, thats what I meat...that is fairly the process....I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to incrue a big expense up front to have an understanding of what you are getting and I think many people don't know that.....the repository protects the owners, however, many of those x-rays were taken a couple of months prior to the sales ad before the horses were shiped to the sales grounds - so it is always good practice to x-ray your horses arterwards...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Yeah, thats what I meat...that is fairly the process....I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to incrue a big expense up front to have an understanding of what you are getting and I think many people don't know that.....the repository protects the owners, however, many of those x-rays were taken a couple of months prior to the sales ad before the horses were shiped to the sales grounds - so it is always good practice to x-ray your horses arterwards...

The vets even charge you when they read the x-rays for you. Even though they weren't the ones who took the x-rays in the repository, they still charge you when they look at them. If my memory is correct, I think our vet bill from the Keeneland sale last year was around $9,000.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Yeah, thats what I meat...that is fairly the process....I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to incrue a big expense up front to have an understanding of what you are getting and I think many people don't know that.....the repository protects the owners, however, many of those x-rays were taken a couple of months prior to the sales ad before the horses were shiped to the sales grounds - so it is always good practice to x-ray your horses arterwards...

I don't know about other farms but the one I worked on always did x-rays within two weeks of whenever that yearling would sell...It made the films recent but also left enough time to redo any that they didn't like etc.