shaq to the Cavs

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That was 20 years ago. Things and rules change. How often were Wade and LeBron and Kobe and Carmello doubled during the playoffs? When a guy drives to the basket and help comes, that does not count as a double. As I stated before, three points shots are the same regardless of where they are taken and who they are taken by. They arent easier or harder because of other players. They are 23' 9" regardless.

What a weak cop out. Regardless if it was 20 years ago or not, ONE player and the attention he receieved created open shots for his teammates. It is an irrefutible fact.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

What a weak cop out. Regardless if it was 20 years ago or not, ONE player and the attention he receieved created open shots for his teammates. It is an irrefutible fact.

Are you kidding? This is what you are hanging your hat on? We are talking about THREE POINT SHOTS!!!! The Three point line is the same distance away from the basket regardless of WHO throws you the ball. Why is THAT so hard to grasp? There is no logic that says that a 24 foot shot is any easier if you are "more" open. It is still a 24 foot shot. If i am doubled teamed and pass to a cutting teammate for a layup, that is one thing. But if I pass to a guy behind the three point line the shot is equally as challenging as if the guy simply creates his own three point shot or has a pick run for him to get a three point shot.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? This is what you are hanging your hat on? We are talking about THREE POINT SHOTS!!!! The Three point line is the same distance away from the basket regardless of WHO throws you the ball. Why is THAT so hard to grasp? There is no logic that says that a 24 foot shot is any easier if you are "more" open. It is still a 24 foot shot. If i am doubled teamed and pass to a cutting teammate for a layup, that is one thing. But if I pass to a guy behind the three point line the shot is equally as challenging as if the guy simply creates his own three point shot or has a pick run for him to get a three point shot.

There is a HUGE difference between an uncontested three and one with a hand in your face.

Put the cheeseburger down and try it some time.

If you can't grasp that, you should stick to watching baseball.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

There is a HUGE difference between an uncontested three and one with a hand in your face.

Put the cheeseburger down and try it some time.

If you can't grasp that, you should stick to watching baseball.

So if you dont have a Kobe or LeBron on your team you have to take contested threes? FYI I'm sure that my personal basketball experience far outweighs yours if you would like to go there.

If you would like we could have a three point shootout this summer? Of course as many cheeseburgers as I eat I would only play for money. I can easily swing by Washington on my way to Saratoga and pay for my trip.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So if you dont have a Kobe or LeBron on your team you have to take contested threes? FYI I'm sure that my personal basketball experience far outweighs yours if you would like to go there.

If you would like we could have a three point shootout this summer? Of course as many cheeseburgers as I eat I would only play for money. I can easily swing by Washington on my way to Saratoga and pay for my trip.

LOL. Im just giving you crap chuck.

To answer the first question, no, you dont need kobe or lebron on your team to shoot uncontested threes. The point is that guys like that are going to create so much attention that three point shooters are going to get more unconteted looks.

[dalakhani]

This should settle it:

http://wp2.medina-gazette.com/2009/0...his-own-magic/

The ball is now in the Orlando Magic’s court.

Actually, it’s in the hands of LeBron James at the top of the key, with the Cavaliers small forward having yet to use his dribble, but for the first time in the Eastern Conference finals, it is Or-lando that now faces a major adjustment.

If Magic coach Stan Van Gundy doesn’t come up with a way to slow down James in Game 6 tonight at Amway Arena, the series could be coming back to Cleveland for Game 7 on Monday.

“It is just too easy for him right now,” Orlando center Dwight Howard said. “He’s catching it in his sweet spot and it’s one dribble to the basket. We’ve got to make it a little tougher on him.”

James, who is averaging 41.2 points, 8.6 rebounds and 8.2 assists in the series, had 37 points, 14 rebounds and 12 assists in Cleveland’s 112-102 win in Game 5. The last player to put up at least those numbers in a playoff game was Oscar Robertson in 1963 (41-15-12).

The league MVP did much of his damage in the fourth quarter, when he had 17 points, four boards and four assists. James scored or assisted on the Cavaliers’ first 29 points of the period. Going back to the end of the third quarter, he had a hand in 32 consecutive Cleveland points.

The 24-year-old did almost all his damage after receiving the ball near the top of the key, which al-lowed him to make jumpers, drive or, if Orlando tried to double-team, pass to team-mates for wide-open looks.

“The game is basically all LeBron, all the time,” Van Gundy said. “It is a difficult area to double-team him in. It’s a difficult part of the floor because of his shooters and his passing.

“You play him one-on-one and it is real tough. He makes shots. If he gets into the paint, it’s automatically a foul. It becomes very, very difficult.”

It will remain difficult as long as Mo Williams and Daniel “Boobie” Gibson, who were a combined 9-of-13 from behind the 3-point arc in Game 5, continue to make shots.

“That’s something that as a unit, players and coaches, we came up with trying to exploit their defense with all our shooters out there,” James said.

“Having a live dribble ei-ther at the top of the key or the free throw line is key for me and our team. It adds a threat of me jabbing, jabbing, taking a shot or getting to the paint and either taking a shot or creating for my teammates. Any time you are as dangerous as I am, or the best guys in this league, it makes you that much more dangerous because they don’t know what you are going to do.”

The Cavaliers have used that offensive set before, but they went to it extensively down the stretch of Game 5.

Once James gets the ball, the play calls for two Cleve-land 3-point shooters, in this case Williams and Gibson, to go to opposite corners. Two big men, usually Anderson Varejao and Zydrunas Ilgauskas, station themselves near the base-line, a few feet outside the lane.

With James in the old-school, triple-threat position – shoot, drive or pass – it becomes extremely hard to double-team him.

Send a guard at him and the 6-foot-8, 250-pounder simply passes over the top to that person’s man, as he did in finding Gibson for two 3-pointers and Williams for one in the fourth quar-ter. Try to send a big man and he hits a cutter, which is what happened when Varejao converted a three-point play.

Play him straight up, which is what Orlando attempted to do for long stretches with 6-6, 215-pound Mickael Pietrus, and James shoots a jumper, drives to the hole or draws fouls.

“We didn’t do anything tricky,” Brown said. “We just gave him the ball right there at what we call ‘The Nail’ and said, ‘Get us some good looks, Big Fella.’

“We just felt that would be open with the way they were trying to double-team LeBron. It gave him an opportunity to make plays minus the double-team. If they chose to double, then he was going to pass the ball. We just had to have guys on the perimeter make wide-open shots.”

There is no easy way for Orlando to counter the play. The Magic can try to deny James the ball, but he’s just too big, fast and strong. The best Orlando can really hope for in that regard is to force James to catch the ball a few feet beyond the 3-point arc, so at least he has to dribble in order to get into serious attack position.

The Magic can also hope Williams, who was 6-of-27 on 3-pointers through the first four games of the series, and Gibson, who was a complete non-factor in Games 1, 2 and 3, don’t continue to make shots.

In addition, Orlando has Defensive Player of the Year Howard to protect the inte-rior and contest shots, but relying on him too much runs the risk of serious foul trouble. Howard, who has fouled out three times and has been whistled 27 times overall in the series, picked up his fifth personal in Game 5 on a James drive midway through the fourth quarter and his sixth with 2:22 to go.

Both resulted in three-point plays for James, who found a way to get his body into Howard’s before the 6-11, 265-pounder could get into good position to block or alter his shot.

“If you allow a guy like that to get space, he is able to jump and create and block shots,” James said. “That’s how he gets a lot of his weak-side blocks, com-ing across and blocking shots. If you don’t give him much space, if you hit him, make contact with him, it’s tough for a guy like that to get off the court.”

In his press conference after Game 5, Van Gundy had already started com-plaining about James, who was 15-of-19 at the line, getting all the calls. It’s a ploy used by almost every coach in every playoff series, but the Cavaliers will continue to ride James in Game 6.

“That’s what great players do,” Brown said. “Great players put the team on their back and everybody steps up.

“He’s showing confidence in his teammates. He’s encouraging them. He’s talking strategy offensively. He’s talking strategy defensively. Just his mental awareness, whether it’s on the floor during the game or in the huddle, is off the charts. We have to continue to have that from him

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This should settle it:

The Magic can also hope Williams, who was 6-of-27 on 3-pointers through the first four games of the series, and Gibson, who was a complete non-factor in Games 1, 2 and 3, don’t continue to make shots.

I don't get it. So LeBron James didn't play the first four games? You seem to think making three pointers is simply a function of who Mo Williams was playing with. With James on the floor, as you stated it is hard to believe Williams shot 27 completely completely contested threes the first 4 games did he?? This paragraph alone would seem to completely throw your argument here into the toilet and support Cannon's argument that a wide open 3 is a wide open 3. He isn't simply making them simply because LeBron James is on the floor. But again, this paragraph was my point all series. The 3 was as huge for the Cavs as it was for Orlando. Orlando was simply hot this series and Cleveland wasn't.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

LOL. Im just giving you crap chuck.

To answer the first question, no, you dont need kobe or lebron on your team to shoot uncontested threes. The point is that guys like that are going to create so much attention that three point shooters are going to get more unconteted looks.

Just because you are a girl doesn't mean I wont take your money!

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Just because you are a girl doesn't mean I wont take your money!

I can shoot but dont play but with my son in the driveway once in a while. You would probably kill me.

[dalakhani]

Jason Kidd on the subject:

"I could sit and watch from the bench," Kidd said. "[LeBron] is so talented, he's going to get guys wide-open shots. So we'll look at free agency and what happens for me next year."

I guess Jason Kidd doesnt know what he is talking about either.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Jason Kidd on the subject:

"I could sit and watch from the bench," Kidd said. "[LeBron] is so talented, he's going to get guys wide-open shots. So we'll look at free agency and what happens for me next year."

I guess Jason Kidd doesnt know what he is talking about either.

Wide open shots aren't necessarily three point shots. There are very few players in the league that can take contested threes without being planted on the bench. Most three point attempts are open shots.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Wide open shots aren't necessarily three point shots. There are very few players in the league that can take contested threes without being planted on the bench. Most three point attempts are open shots.

Yeah, but whether you want to admit it or not, there are degrees of being open. Open enough to shoot? yes, I would agree most 3 point shots are taken when a guy is open enough to shoot a reasonable shot that isnt forced.

It seems to me that some of the shots Lebron's teammates get are incredibly wide open. Like, no one within 10 ft wide open. Wide open where they can actually take a dribble and set up if they want. I will find two videos and post them and show you what i mean.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Yeah, but whether you want to admit it or not, there are degrees of being open. Open enough to shoot? yes, I would agree most 3 point shots are taken when a guy is open enough to shoot a reasonable shot that isnt forced.

It seems to me that some of the shots Lebron's teammates get are incredibly wide open. Like, no one within 10 ft wide open. Wide open where they can actually take a dribble and set up if they want. I will find two videos and post them and show you what i mean.

Being wider open does not correlate to hitting more shots. Hell sometimes being unusually wide open is worse because you think for a split second because of it and dont just naturally let it fly.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? This is what you are hanging your hat on? We are talking about THREE POINT SHOTS!!!! The Three point line is the same distance away from the basket regardless of WHO throws you the ball. Why is THAT so hard to grasp? There is no logic that says that a 24 foot shot is any easier if you are "more" open. It is still a 24 foot shot. If i am doubled teamed and pass to a cutting teammate for a layup, that is one thing. But if I pass to a guy behind the three point line the shot is equally as challenging as if the guy simply creates his own three point shot or has a pick run for him to get a three point shot.

I honestly can't believe I am reading that.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I honestly can't believe I am reading that.

That makes two of us. How can anyone argue that a shot with nobody around you is no easier than one with a guy in your face or running at you with a hand in your face?

[horseofcourse]

These are getting funny. I shouldn't speak for Cannon, but I think what he is saying is if you are open by 3 feet or open by 12 feet it is the same thing...you are still open. BAsically, if you're in rhythm, without blanket coverage and a hand 0.25 inches from your eyeballs, you're open.

[King Glorious]

If you are Glen Rice or Ray Allen and you only need an inch, I agree. For the vast majority of guys though, I completely disagree.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If you are Glen Rice or Ray Allen and you only need an inch, I agree. For the vast majority of guys though, I completely disagree.

Do you really see a lot of guys taking heavily contested, covered like a blanket three pointers in a NBA game? I don't. I rarely see heavily contested 3 pointers unless it's a shot clock emergency.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If you are Glen Rice or Ray Allen and you only need an inch, I agree. For the vast majority of guys though, I completely disagree.

Still if you watch those guys in warmups they will hit 80% from that same distance. It isn't just having a hand in your face, it is how quickly you have to release the shot.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That makes two of us. How can anyone argue that a shot with nobody around you is no easier than one with a guy in your face or running at you with a hand in your face?

You are making the assumption that guys playing without a star are taking contested three pointers. Why? Do only the teammates of superstars get open looks? That is really ridiculous. The whole premise that you guys are using is that a team with a great player will get guys easier shots. However since the three point line does not move the shots are equally hard. BECAUSE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THREE POINT ATTEMPTS ARE OPEN SHOTS REGARDLESS OF THE TEAMS ON THE FLOOR!!! Seriously how many players that arent stars have the leeway to shoot contested 25 foot shots?