shaq to the Cavs

[King Glorious]

A 40% shooter is good, hardly great. Let's be clear about that. I wanted to look up something real quick. Back when the Bulls won their six titles, I wanted to see what the % was of the guy taking the most 3's besides Jordan.

1991-Tucker 41%
1992-Hodges 38%
1993-Hodges 38%
1996-Pippen 37%
1997-Pippen 37%
1998-Pippen 32%

West's 40% is about in line for what a decent/good shooter will hit. I get Sniper's point though. The percentage is at 40 for him because of LeBron. But what Sniper didn't point out correctly the first time but did fix later is that West is not normally a 40% shooter so the LeBron factor is what improved him. If West was a normal 40% shooter, then Sniper would be correct in expecting him to be up even higher with James.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

A 40% shooter is good, hardly great. Let's be clear about that. I wanted to look up something real quick. Back when the Bulls won their six titles, I wanted to see what the % was of the guy taking the most 3's besides Jordan.

1991-Tucker 41%
1992-Hodges 38%
1993-Hodges 38%
1996-Pippen 37%
1997-Pippen 37%
1998-Pippen 32%

West's 40% is about in line for what a decent/good shooter will hit. I get Sniper's point though. The percentage is at 40 for him because of LeBron. But what Sniper didn't point out correctly the first time but did fix later is that West is not normally a 40% shooter so the LeBron factor is what improved him. If West was a normal 40% shooter, then Sniper would be correct in expecting him to be up even higher with James.

IN the end though is 36 percent really that bad?? 3 point shooting was far from a problem for the Cavs this year. As I said they were one of the top 3 percentage teams in the league last year. The problem in the ORlando series is it left them for some reason. I dont' know the reason...Orlando's defense, just not shooting well etc. I have no clue. It appeared they got open looks in that series though. That's what the team was however...LeBron and a bunch of outside shooters. They are in trouble if they don't shoot well. That's what happened the Orlando series. EVen Ilgauskas despite being 7 foot 3, his offensive strength is as an outside shooter. Dalakhani mentioned it several times and it was one thing I did agree with her about...the Cavs had zero post offensive threat.

But my point is if you take a lot of 3 pointers anything in the 35 to 45 percent range is good. WEst is a pretty good 3 point shooter.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

IN the end though is 36 percent really that bad?? 3 point shooting was far from a problem for the Cavs this year. As I said they were one of the top 3 percentage teams in the league last year. The problem in the ORlando series is it left them for some reason. I dont' know the reason...Orlando's defense, just not shooting well etc. I have no clue. It appeared they got open looks in that series though. That's what the team was however...LeBron and a bunch of outside shooters. They are in trouble if they don't shoot well. That's what happened the Orlando series. EVen Ilgauskas despite being 7 foot 3, his offensive strength is as an outside shooter. Dalakhani mentioned it several times and it was one thing I did agree with her about...the Cavs had zero post offensive threat.

But my point is if you take a lot of 3 pointers anything in the 35 to 45 percent range is good. WEst is a pretty good 3 point shooter.

I don't think 36% is bad. I do think that with the way the Cavalier offense is set up, they'd be better off getting a guy that's a more natural 40% shooter so that when he gets the better looks that James creates, he might up it to around 44-45%.

[timmgirvan]

Past history aside, I think if Shaq came into camp leaner and business-like he wouldn't be prone to late-season injuries.....they could get another shot!
However, Jefferson going to Spurs could make it really interesting in the West!

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Past history aside, I think if Shaq came into camp leaner and business-like he wouldn't be prone to late-season injuries.....they could get another shot!
However, Jefferson going to Spurs could make it really interesting in the West!

We need more than Jefferson.
We need a post.
We need a backup Point.
We need Manu to stay healthy all year (a virtual impossibility with the way he throws himself about at his age).
We need Duncan's knees to stay healthy.
We need Parker to be as good as he was this season.

We are old.
And we dont play good D anymore.

It helps getting Jefferson.
But it does not make us contenders with the Lakers.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by pgardn

We need more than Jefferson.
We need a post.
We need a backup Point.
We need Manu to stay healthy all year (a virtual impossibility with the way he throws himself about at his age).
We need Duncan's knees to stay healthy.
We need Parker to be as good as he was this season.

We are old.
And we dont play good D anymore.

It helps getting Jefferson.
But it does not make us contenders with the Lakers.

And you need the Lakers and Mavs to move to the Eastern Conference.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

And you need the Lakers and Mavs to move to the Eastern Conference.

We can beat the Mavs.
I dont worry about them.
If we have what I wrote above occur, we
can smack the Mavs.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

And you need the Lakers and Mavs to move to the Eastern Conference.

8 years later and KG can't let go of this mavericks fantasy.

[2 Dollar Bill]

Is Ben Stein...part of the deal ?? I thought they are chained together for a year ???

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think 36% is bad. I do think that with the way the Cavalier offense is set up, they'd be better off getting a guy that's a more natural 40% shooter so that when he gets the better looks that James creates, he might up it to around 44-45%.

This is ridiculous.

[SniperSB23]

What about a guy like Bobby Simmons? He's making over $10 million this year so I have to imagine the Nets want to unload him. Even if they just want the expiring contract they could have Ilgauskas and be in the same boat. Simmons shot 44.7% with NJ last year, 42.0% with the Milwaukee a few years back, and 43.5% with the Clippers before that. Couldn't he be a perfect fit off the bench for the Cavs?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

What about a guy like Bobby Simmons? He's making over $10 million this year so I have to imagine the Nets want to unload him. Even if they just want the expiring contract they could have Ilgauskas and be in the same boat. Simmons shot 44.7% with NJ last year, 42.0% with the Milwaukee a few years back, and 43.5% with the Clippers before that. Couldn't he be a perfect fit off the bench for the Cavs?

Outside shooting is not their problem. It was a strength last year. That's why they won 66 games last year. The problem with the team is that it was too much a focus...when the outside shots stopped falling in the Orlando series they had nothing else other than LEBron. No post offense to fall back on. Same with Orlando....difference in that series they made their 3s Cleveland didn't. THeir 3's stopped falling against LA...they lost in 5. When you depend so much on making 3s as both those teams do, you'll have to get lucky to win it all. Neither did.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

What about a guy like Bobby Simmons? He's making over $10 million this year so I have to imagine the Nets want to unload him. Even if they just want the expiring contract they could have Ilgauskas and be in the same boat. Simmons shot 44.7% with NJ last year, 42.0% with the Milwaukee a few years back, and 43.5% with the Clippers before that. Couldn't he be a perfect fit off the bench for the Cavs?

For 10 million a year? The Nets want to keep him to open up cap space for next year.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

For 10 million a year? The Nets want to keep him to open up cap space for next year.

The Nets could take on Ilgauskas' $10 million a year and be in the same situation for cap space.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The Nets could take on Ilgauskas' $10 million a year and be in the same situation for cap space.

The Cavs dont want to trade Ilgauskas. Why would they do that? Shaq isnt a full time player anymore.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The Cavs dont want to trade Ilgauskas. Why would they do that? Shaq isnt a full time player anymore.

Shaq averaged 30 minutes a game last year and played in over 70.

If he matches that, keeping ilguaskas would be in essence paying 10 million dollars for a guy you hope will play 18 minutes a game.

If Cleveland can unload that salary, they will. The problem is, no one will take it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Shaq averaged 30 minutes a game last year and played in over 70.

If he matches that, keeping ilguaskas would be in essence paying 10 million dollars for a guy you hope will play 18 minutes a game.

If Cleveland can unload that salary, they will. The problem is, no one will take it.

Cleveland would not unload Ilgauskas without getting a quality center in return. they need to rest Shaq more as they are planning on playing deep into the playoffs and he will need to be fresh for another month and a half if things go right. Not to mention putting all your eggs in the Shaq basket with no safety net seems to be an extremely risky play. And 18 minutes a game is a a quarter and a half, a lot of time to have to play..... who exactly would be the back up? Cleveland cant replace him in the free agent market this year.

Unrestricted Free Agents

Raef LaFrentz
Radoslav Nesterovic
Jason Collins
Zaza Pachulia
Robert Swift
Chris Mihm
Saer Sene
Jarron Collins
Didier Ilunga-Mbenga
Calvin Booth
Melvin Ely
Ryan Hollins
Lorenzen Wright
Adonal Foyle
Jamaal Magloire
Sean Marks
Theo Ratliff
Patrick O'Bryant
Jake Voskuhl
Dikembe Mutombo


See anybody there you want to play 18 minutes? Cleveland just brought in Chinese money, they aren't worried about the cap this year especially with Shaq's 20 mill coming off the cap next year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

A 40% shooter is good, hardly great. Let's be clear about that. I wanted to look up something real quick. Back when the Bulls won their six titles, I wanted to see what the % was of the guy taking the most 3's besides Jordan.

1991-Tucker 41%
1992-Hodges 38%
1993-Hodges 38%
1996-Pippen 37%
1997-Pippen 37%
1998-Pippen 32%

West's 40% is about in line for what a decent/good shooter will hit. I get Sniper's point though. The percentage is at 40 for him because of LeBron. But what Sniper didn't point out correctly the first time but did fix later is that West is not normally a 40% shooter so the LeBron factor is what improved him. If West was a normal 40% shooter, then Sniper would be correct in expecting him to be up even higher with James.

The vast majority of three pointers taken are undefended regardless of the team, composition of the team or any other factor. Shooting 40% is shooting 40%, period.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The vast majority of three pointers taken are undefended regardless of the team, composition of the team or any other factor. Shooting 40% is shooting 40%, period.

Not even close to true. Orlando didn't get anywhere close to the same kinds of shots against the Lakers over the last three games as they got in the first two or against Cleveland. A lot of their shots were contested and those same 40% shooters couldn't shoot as well. If you don't think that playing with a guy like Kobe or Wade or James translates to better shots and more open looks, you see the game way different than most people. Anyone's percentage is going to go up playing with those guys.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Not even close to true. Orlando didn't get anywhere close to the same kinds of shots against the Lakers over the last three games as they got in the first two or against Cleveland. A lot of their shots were contested and those same 40% shooters couldn't shoot as well. If you don't think that playing with a guy like Kobe or Wade or James translates to better shots and more open looks, you see the game way different than most people. Anyone's percentage is going to go up playing with those guys.

That just isnt true. Kobe and Wade are both slashers who rarely dish out to the three point line. No one doubles perimeter players in the NBA. it is just a false argument that a player should shoot better because they are playing with a great scorer. it makes no sense. If you said that they played with a top post player, where there are doubles and people collapsing off the perimeter it may be palatable. If you want to say that Williams three point shooting improvement was because of Lebron, why did his overall shooting percentage drop? because shooting %'s are effected by tons of factors outside of the 4 other players on the court.