RAGS or RACHEL

[Danzig]

rachel, party of one for me. why? she faced heat from start to finish in the race on saturday, and still prevailed. she didn't steal the race. she broke from post 13-go look up the last time they had a winner from the 13-and had big drama throughout much of the race pressing her. every horse that ran with her early, or tried to, finished-where?
besides, she also won the oaks by a record margin. then there's her martha washington....her average margin of victory this year has been pretty awesome. rags on the other hand, didn't control every part of the race in her belmont win. i enjoyed it very much, but i would give the nod to rachel. as for beating curlin vs beating mine that bird....i was never a big curlin fan. to me he proved the adage that it was better to be lucky than good. he benefitted by having every other good member of his crop retire while he went on to beat a big pile of nothing at four.

[Indian Charlie]

I am taking the opposite stance from Cowgirlintexass.

I was far more impressed with RA's Preakness than I was with Rags Belmont, but I think Rags was the better filly.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

rachel, party of one for me. why? she faced heat from start to finish in the race on saturday, and still prevailed. she didn't steal the race. she broke from post 13-go look up the last time they had a winner from the 13-and had big drama throughout much of the race pressing her. every horse that ran with her early, or tried to, finished-where?
besides, she also won the oaks by a record margin. then there's her martha washington....her average margin of victory this year has been pretty awesome. rags on the other hand, didn't control every part of the race in her belmont win. i enjoyed it very much, but i would give the nod to rachel. as for beating curlin vs beating mine that bird....i was never a big curlin fan. to me he proved the adage that it was better to be lucky than good. he benefitted by having every other good member of his crop retire while he went on to beat a big pile of nothing at four.

Interesting you mentioned the Martha Washington, Eight Belles won that by quite a margin also and if I can humbly say I would rank her 2nd in the derby though not a win was quite an accomplishment also, especially when you are referencing R2R and RA performances against the opposite sex.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

Interesting you mentioned the Martha Washington, Eight Belles won that by quite a margin also and if I can humbly say I would rank her 2nd in the derby though not a win was quite an accomplishment also, especially when you are referencing R2R and RA performances against the opposite sex.

but rachel shaved two seconds off the record in that win. that's why i mentioned it.
as for eight belles, that derby had her and big brown, and nothing else.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but rachel shaved two seconds off the record in that win. that's why i mentioned it.
as for eight belles, that derby had her and big brown, and nothing else.

Why does the competition that Eight Belles and Rags To Riches (and by curious extension HOY Curlin) ran against come into play against them, and yet the same standard is not extended to Rachel Alexandra?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Why does the competition that Eight Belles and Rags To Riches (and by curious extension HOY Curlin) ran against come into play against them, and yet the same standard is not extended to Rachel Alexandra?

i think the field saturday is the best one rachel has faced, i haven't said otherwise. i also think eight belles gets more credit than she deserves because of her death. and i'll probably get crap for saying that, but it's true and is my opinion. yes, she got second in the derby-i'd have been shocked if she hadn't, considering who else ran...
i don't think curlin is that good, so why would i give points for rags beating him by a head bob? i think there were better horses in that crop that year than curlin, and that he benefitted by them all clearing the field and leaving him to it all at age four.


edit~ the question was which race i thought was better, i gave my answer and why i thought that way-that's all.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think the field saturday is the best one rachel has faced, i haven't said otherwise. i also think eight belles gets more credit than she deserves because of her death. and i'll probably get crap for saying that, but it's true and is my opinion. yes, she got second in the derby-i'd have been shocked if she hadn't, considering who else ran...
i don't think curlin is that good, so why would i give points for rags beating him by a head bob? i think there were better horses in that crop that year than curlin, and that he benefitted by them all clearing the field and leaving him to it all at age four.


edit~ the question was which race i thought was better, i gave my answer and why i thought that way-that's all.

Did you see the '07 JCGC and BC Classic? Who of consequence was missing from those races?

I suppose Curlin loses points for being both versatile and durable?

As for the edit, you've clearly gone beyond the initial question. Else, why are we talking about multiple renewals of the Martha Washington?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Did you see the '07 JCGC and BC Classic? Who of consequence was missing from those races?

I suppose Curlin loses points for being both versatile and durable?

As for the edit, you've clearly gone beyond the initial question. Else, why are we talking about multiple renewals of the Martha Washington?

yes, i saw them.
also, i went beyond the topic because i saw mention from others of not just who they thought had the better race, but who was the better horse-so i chose to expound on my answer and how i arrived at my thinking.

as for curlin, i am mostly thinking of his four year old season when i say he had the field to himself. i thought he had a very good season at three, as did a few others. i think it's a shame they all retired, and left him to play all alone.

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Why does the competition that Eight Belles and Rags To Riches (and by curious extension HOY Curlin) ran against come into play against them, and yet the same standard is not extended to Rachel Alexandra?

i voted for R2R and would vote for Eight Belles. we got to see them have to dig down and find something extra to win. to me they have an extra toughness.
now i think RA is VERY special but until we get to see her dig down and find something extra, i'll hold my greatness vote.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

i voted for R2R and would vote for Eight Belles. we got to see them have to dig down and find something extra to win. to me they have an extra toughness.
now i think RA is VERY special but until we get to see her dig down and find something extra, i'll hold my greatness vote.

so what do you call what happened saturday????? she definately dug down.

[King Glorious]

Rags ran toe to toe with that year's HOY. Rachel, while running an outstanding race, prevailed over a horse that was twice losing at Sunland this year. You don't have to think much of Curlin but he's light years better than Mine that Bird and thus beating him, no matter the pace of the speed figures is the more impressive race for me.