Weekend Beyers (Rachel 108; Bird 105)

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by gales0678

but still the core of the beyer belief is that the numbers tell the story , if it is an oddity a number that can't be explained that it's gotch , you must be cheating

explain the jump to me joe , how can this horse simply jump up the 20+ points and win the ky derby?

Show me where Beyer said:

If any horse ever jumps up 25 points, the horse is juiced. Always. Make sure Gales knows that I'm not allowing for any exceptions. All horses will always run the identical number in every race, and if not, there are shenanigans about. Shenanigans I say!

You're the one with the axe to grind. Mine That Bird beat a neutered Derby field in the slop while saving all the ground. Maybe the Sunland numbers are inaccurate. There are plenty of explanations. But don't tell me we should be up in arms over this like we are with Dutrow, who's performed this type of miracle THOUSANDS of times and is an unapologetic cheater.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Show me where Beyer said:



You're the one with the axe to grind. Mine That Bird beat a neutered Derby field in the slop while saving all the ground. Maybe the Sunland numbers are inaccurate. There are plenty of explanations. But don't tell me we should be up in arms over this like we are with Dutrow, who's performed this type of miracle THOUSANDS of times and is an unapologetic cheater.

or mullins, who hit ungodly figures, got caught 'shaking, ran out of the DET barn because of it...and go figure, his % went in the toilet that month.

[HaloWishingwell]

So a trainer with a 1-32 record had nothing to lose and juiced his horse this Saturday?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Show me where Beyer said:



You're the one with the axe to grind. Mine That Bird beat a neutered Derby field in the slop while saving all the ground. Maybe the Sunland numbers are inaccurate. There are plenty of explanations. But don't tell me we should be up in arms over this like we are with Dutrow, who's performed this type of miracle THOUSANDS of times and is an unapologetic cheater.

what does the rest of the field have to do with one horse going from 81 to 105 ?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by gales0678

what does the rest of the field have to do with one horse going from 81 to 105 ?

how many times has dutrow runners tested postive , you would have people on here believe that it has been thousands of times?

do you even know the number?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by gales0678

how many times has dutrow runners tested postive , you would have people on here believe that it has been thousands of times?

do you even know the number?

approx 462 times.

Do you really think Mine that Bird was juiced? Or if he was really juiced he was the only horse in that race on the juice?

I think the slop was the main reason for his beyer jump.. and the fact he saved as much ground as possible must have helped.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

approx 462 times.

Do you really think Mine that Bird was juiced? Or if he was really juiced he was the only horse in that race on the juice?

I think the slop was the main reason for his beyer jump.. and the fact he saved as much ground as possible must have helped.

is that a fact?

i'm am not saying he was juiced , but , no one here has shown me proof that TOPF was jucied the day of his big jump either

[Antitrust32]

actually I just typed a random number


there is no accountability on the internet..


but what about my other questions?

If Bird was on drugs do you really think he was the only horse in the race on drugs?

and dont you think the mud had more to do with the moveup?

If he was drugged in this race I'm sure he was drugged in his other races... and he still ran slow.

Its not like he was just claimed and moved up right away...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

actually I just typed a random number


there is no accountability on the internet..


but what about my other questions?

If Bird was on drugs do you really think he was the only horse in the race on drugs?

and dont you think the mud had more to do with the moveup?

If he was drugged in this race I'm sure he was drugged in his other races... and he still ran slow.

Its not like he was just claimed and moved up right away...

95% of statistics are made up.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by gales0678

how many times has dutrow runners tested postive , you would have people on here believe that it has been thousands of times?

do you even know the number?

You are kidding, right? It's been every since 2000 that he's had at least one fine or suspension for an overage.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You are kidding, right? It's been every since 2000 that he's had at least one fine or suspension for an overage.

scott - show me the suspensions/fines all of them every year is there a site i can look at?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by gales0678

scott - show me the suspensions/fines all of them every year is there a site i can look at?

I don't have a full list but there is a lot of info in this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...sportCat=horse

Dutrow's ARCI rap sheet contains 72 entries, including fines and suspensions in Maryland, California, New York, Florida, Delaware and New Jersey.
Several of those are for his own personal conduct; many involve marijuana. Others include: an alleged attempt to pass forged checks in Maryland; an attempt to provide a false urine sample "by means of an apparatus concealed on his person"; and a failure to report on a New York license application a 1991 criminal conviction in Nevada.

And he's been fined or suspended at least once every year since 2000 for doping issues. In 2000, a barn search in New York produced "an injectible vitamin which is forbidden." In '01, a horse had excessive Lasix -- an anti-bleeding medication -- in its system. In '02, Dutrow "failed to follow Lasix procedures." In '03, a horse tested positive for Mepivacaine. From '04 through an '08 fine in Florida, there were citations regarding Lasix, Clenbuterol, Phenylbutazone and Oxyphenbutazone.

He served a 60-day suspension in 2005 after two of his horses tested positive for banned substances and for a claiming violation. Then, in 2007, he served an additional 14-day suspension and was fined $25,000 for violating conditions of his suspension by having contact with his stable.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I don't have a full list but there is a lot of info in this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...sportCat=horse

Dutrow's ARCI rap sheet contains 72 entries, including fines and suspensions in Maryland, California, New York, Florida, Delaware and New Jersey.
Several of those are for his own personal conduct; many involve marijuana. Others include: an alleged attempt to pass forged checks in Maryland; an attempt to provide a false urine sample "by means of an apparatus concealed on his person"; and a failure to report on a New York license application a 1991 criminal conviction in Nevada.

And he's been fined or suspended at least once every year since 2000 for doping issues. In 2000, a barn search in New York produced "an injectible vitamin which is forbidden." In '01, a horse had excessive Lasix -- an anti-bleeding medication -- in its system. In '02, Dutrow "failed to follow Lasix procedures." In '03, a horse tested positive for Mepivacaine. From '04 through an '08 fine in Florida, there were citations regarding Lasix, Clenbuterol, Phenylbutazone and Oxyphenbutazone.

He served a 60-day suspension in 2005 after two of his horses tested positive for banned substances and for a claiming violation. Then, in 2007, he served an additional 14-day suspension and was fined $25,000 for violating conditions of his suspension by having contact with his stable.

scott we live in america , no one here has show me any proof the TOFP was juiced that day when he jumped 20+ points , yet DRF felt compelled to write a story without having any facts about the horse in question. Again can you tell me TOFP was jucied when he won in florida that day and jumped 20+ beyer points?

[Riot]

Here's some Beyer jumpup numbers the rest of the Derby field have already produced in their careers.

Good young horses have a jump up. Can they hold it, repeat it, is it their new real level or was it too much and they are out, injured?

Mind That Bird, coming in with a good pattern, was fortunate enough to have his jumpup in the Derby.

Flying Private - 44-71 + 27
Hot Stuff - 71 - 96 +25
Mind That Bird - 80 - 105 + 25
I Want Revenge - 92-113 + 23
Dunkirk - 77 - 98 + 21
Summer Bird - 78 - 99 + 21
Hold Me Back - 77-97 + 20
Fresian Fire - 77 - 94 + 17
West Side Bernie - 84 - 101 + 17
Atomic Rain - 82 - 95 + 13

[fantini33]

Originally Posted by Riot

Here's some Beyer jumpup numbers the rest of the Derby field have already produced in their careers.

Good young horses have a jump up. Can they hold it, repeat it, is it their new real level or was it too much and they are out, injured?

Mind That Bird, coming in with a good pattern, was fortunate enough to have his jumpup in the Derby.

Flying Private - 44-71 + 27
Hot Stuff - 71 - 96 +25
Mind That Bird - 80 - 105 + 25
I Want Revenge - 92-113 + 23
Dunkirk - 77 - 98 + 21
Summer Bird - 78 - 99 + 21
Hold Me Back - 77-97 + 20
Fresian Fire - 77 - 94 + 17
West Side Bernie - 84 - 101 + 17
Atomic Rain - 82 - 95 + 13

IMO, this is all you need to see.... Happens a lot, just not in the Derby.