2/16 (OP): Southwest S. (Gr. III)

Danzig · #1 02-15-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I agree. It's tough to see past those four. Flat Out's done nothing wrong, and I'll try to get him into the exacta.

i think he may just reward you....i need to make sure i get home in time to watch this.

pick4 · #2 02-15-2009, 07:49 PM

Silver City might be legit speed but he has to deal with not only Old Fashioned but cheap speed Professor Z.

I think Old Fashioned has enough class and ability to run well and win the race but the closers Flat Out and Polterguist will make this race interesting. Of the latter two I think Flat Out is the better of the two.

In light of all the BS that went on after Eight Belle's broke down I'm rooting for Larry Jones to have a big horse who wins TC races. So far Old Fashioned looks like he could be that horse. However it all depends if he's matured since running as a two year old. The works say yes, but if there's a race that he might be a bit short this one is it.

That being said I think he is the real deal and will run very well. I'm going to box him in an exacta with Flat Out and maybe a three horse box adding Silver City. I'm rooting for Old Fashioned as I can't think of a more deserving trainer having a big time horse for the Derby than Larry Jones.

ateamstupid · #3 02-15-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pick4

That being said I think he is the real deal and will run very well. I'm going to box him in an exacta with Flat Out and maybe a three horse box adding Silver City. I'm rooting for Old Fashioned as I can't think of a more deserving trainer having a big time horse for the Derby than Larry Jones.

I don't understand the universal love for Larry Jones. The dude is Marty Wolfson Lite. And Old Fashioned looks like quite the useful horse, but he got away with murder against nobody in the Remsen and coasted home as he should've. I'm reserving judgment.

lostcode · #4 02-15-2009, 08:17 PM

Anyone see flashbacks of Second June/ Read the Footnotes. Greatest race ever but the horses were never the same. Old Fashioned better be able to rate, because if its a duel.....

pick4 · #5 02-15-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't understand the universal love for Larry Jones. The dude is Marty Wolfson Lite. And Old Fashioned looks like quite the useful horse, but he got away with murder against nobody in the Remsen and coasted home as he should've. I'm reserving judgment.

In retrospect he probably ran against a bad field in the Remsen but he beat them the way a good horse should.

I know Marty Wolfson is a trainer who is very successful but I haven't followed him closely enough to qualify Larry Jones as Marty Lite.

I'm basing my judgement on Jones on the way he conducted himself after Eight Belle's broke down. He was straight forward and handled the situation and himself with dignity, honor, and a bit of humility. In addition he had PETA put out a half baked campaign against him which painted him as a bad guy. He presented himself and horse racing very well when everyone was bashing the sport in the weeks after that tragic breakdown.

We're going to find out about Old Fashioned in the next few months. Maybe he's good enough or maybe he's not. At least we're on the downside of February and the serious TC candidates will start letting us know that they have arrived.

NTamm1215 · #6 02-15-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't understand the universal love for Larry Jones. The dude is Marty Wolfson Lite. And Old Fashioned looks like quite the useful horse, but he got away with murder against nobody in the Remsen and coasted home as he should've. I'm reserving judgment.

What makes you call him Marty Wolfson Lite? It's one thing if you don't like Old Fashioned but that's a hard statement to back up.

In 25 years of training horses Jones has been suspended once for a clenbuterol positive last summer at Delaware. He has also not had a number of miraculous move-ups like Wolfson.

He didn't deserve to have to deal with most of the crap last year from Eight Belles going down but he handled it like a gentleman.

NT

ateamstupid · #7 02-16-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

What makes you call him Marty Wolfson Lite? It's one thing if you don't like Old Fashioned but that's a hard statement to back up.

In 25 years of training horses Jones has been suspended once for a clenbuterol positive last summer at Delaware. He has also not had a number of miraculous move-ups like Wolfson.

He didn't deserve to have to deal with most of the crap last year from Eight Belles going down but he handled it like a gentleman.

NT

Yeah, I went a little overboard, but I find it hard to have a ton of respect for anybody that's based in the land of make believe (Delaware). Plus it was a little fishy to me how Eight Belles transformed from mediocre allowance horse into superstar filly in like a month or two. Jones certainly seems like a nice guy, but I have a hard time believing he's Mr. Clean, and to say that he's "the most deserving trainer" of having a Kentucky Derby contender is weird.

NTamm1215 · #8 02-16-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, I went a little overboard, but I find it hard to have a ton of respect for anybody that's based in the land of make believe (Delaware). Plus it was a little fishy to me how Eight Belles transformed from mediocre allowance horse into superstar filly in like a month or two. Jones certainly seems like a nice guy, but I have a hard time believing he's Mr. Clean, and to say that he's "the most deserving trainer" of having a Kentucky Derby contender is weird.

I don't get into the "most deserving" crap. Especially when it comes to trainers.

If Old Fashioned wins today and looks decent it's safe to say Jones will be the most likely to have multiple contenders in the gate.

NT

ateamstupid · #9 02-16-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I don't get into the "most deserving" crap. Especially when it comes to trainers.

If Old Fashioned wins today and looks decent it's safe to say Jones will be the most likely to have multiple contenders in the gate.

NT

I also don't dislike Old Fashioned, I'm just eager to see how he does as he climbs the competition ladder.

Sightseek · #10 02-16-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, I went a little overboard, but I find it hard to have a ton of respect for anybody that's based in the land of make believe (Delaware). Plus it was a little fishy to me how Eight Belles transformed from mediocre allowance horse into superstar filly in like a month or two. Jones certainly seems like a nice guy, but I have a hard time believing he's Mr. Clean, and to say that he's "the most deserving trainer" of having a Kentucky Derby contender is weird.

Superstar? She had 4 or 5 races in the 90's leading up to the Derby, a good stalking speed, and a great trip...it didn't take much to beat the other 18 horses in that field.

Why is Delaware the land of make believe?

ateamstupid · #11 02-16-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Superstar? She had 4 or 5 races in the 90's leading up to the Derby, a good stalking speed, and a great trip...it didn't take much to beat the other 18 horses in that field.

Why is Delaware the land of make believe?

She had five mediocre races, then suddenly won by 15 at Fair Grounds and turned into a monster. She may just have turned on the lightswitch, all I'm saying is it was very sudden and significant development for her.

If you haven't noticed, there are tons of horses that coincidentally only run well at Delaware, then fall on their faces when they ship anywhere but Philly. It's a profitable angle at Saratoga especially.