Lawyer Ron returns in St. Louis Derby

[Pedigree Ann]

Stallions by Danzig who have sired group or graded winners:
Chief's Crown, Dayjur, Pine Bluff, Polish Precedent, Polish Patriot, Danehill, Polish Navy, Shaadi, Lure,Green Desert, Anabaa, Lost Soldier, Dumaani, Maroof, Bertolini, Military, Mujahid, Monashee Mountain, Boundary, War Chant, Petit Loup, Brahms, Emperor Jones, Ishiguru, Partner's Hero, Danzig Connection, Eagle Eyed, Langfuhr. I may not have caught them all. I'd call that a pretty good collection. A lot of these were overseas, like the Danehills.

I got to visit Danzig at Claiborne a few years ago; he was very old but still in good shape. Very mellow (or just too old to bother), let us pet and fuss over him. Nearly a carbon copy of Northern Dancer, without the bright white markings. Little bulldog of a horse. Why do people think big=good and small=bad? Plenty of counterexamples.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Stallions by Danzig who have sired group or graded winners:
Chief's Crown, Dayjur, Pine Bluff, Polish Precedent, Polish Patriot, Danehill, Polish Navy, Shaadi, Lure,Green Desert, Anabaa, Lost Soldier, Dumaani, Maroof, Bertolini, Military, Mujahid, Monashee Mountain, Boundary, War Chant, Petit Loup, Brahms, Emperor Jones, Ishiguru, Partner's Hero, Danzig Connection, Eagle Eyed, Langfuhr. I may not have caught them all. I'd call that a pretty good collection.

Yeah, I'm not saying trhat there isn't exceptions...look at Chief's Criown for instance...he was a HORRIBLE stallion relative to how good of a racehorse he was.....so was Dayjur and Pine Bluff - no denying that.....

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Yeah, I'm not saying trhat there isn't exceptions...look at Chief's Criown for instance...he was a HORRIBLE stallion relative to how good of a racehorse he was.....so was Dayjur and Pine Bluff - no denying that.....

So horrible that he is now a Chef-de-race. Check the Roman site.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

So horrible that he is now a Chef-de-race. Check the Roman site.

Yeah ... and so is Appalachee ...

... copying and pasting doesn't make you an expert.

Give it up, honey.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

So horrible that he is now a Chef-de-race. Check the Roman site.

List 5 improtant horses that Chief's Crown sired...I doubt you could even list that many....I'm telling you that danzig blood on the paternal side really isn't that great relative to how good of racehorses they were and the mares they got, etc.....I love Danzig as much as the next person, but he just has been very average as a sire of sires.....I like him on the broodmare side, though

[irishtrekker]

Anyone know who else is headed to the Super Derby? (If Lawyer Ron goes, of course...). It would be good to see a few of the old gang clash again -- LR, Bro Derek, SNS. There are still quite a few good 3yo's out there if they can stay healthy.

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Anyone know who else is headed to the Super Derby? (If Lawyer Ron goes, of course...). It would be good to see a few of the old gang clash again -- LR, Bro Derek, SNS. There are still quite a few good 3yo's out there if they can stay healthy.

Ward claims they are pointing Strong Contender there and i think Pletcher is consderuing High Cotton, too.....it will be a strong race this year.....

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I told you all that Lawyer Ron wasn't overrated. Is he in Bernardini's league right now?...no way...I don't think any horse is. But, he is a very nice graded stakes horse that has a very, very promising future. His comeback race was spectacular. He'll only improve off of that start. I am really looking forward to BD's and Sharp Humors returns too. Has anyone heard anything about SNS?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I told you all that Lawyer Ron wasn't overrated. Is he in Bernardini's league right now?...no way...I don't think any horse is. But, he is a very nice graded stakes horse that has a very, very promising future. His comeback race was spectacular. He'll only improve off of that start. I am really looking forward to BD's and Sharp Humors returns too. Has anyone heard anything about SNS?

REad on TTimes that SNS returned to Trombettas barn Friday and the plan is to have him racing in late October or early November. No real plans or races mentioned just he is back in his barn and I assume will be resuming training.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

List 5 improtant horses that Chief's Crown sired...I doubt you could even list that many....I'm telling you that danzig blood on the paternal side really isn't that great relative to how good of racehorses they were and the mares they got, etc.....I love Danzig as much as the next person, but he just has been very average as a sire of sires.....I like him on the broodmare side, though

I was there in person for two of Danzig's three races ... the second time specifically to see him run.

Despite his own unsoundness ... he sired some very good race horses ... but you're right ... his line seems to not be breeding on ... although such things can be reversed quite suddenly. Antonius Pius and Survivalist may become the greatest stallions in the world.

The final chapter won't be written for another twenty years.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

I was there in person for two of Danzig's three races ... the second time specifically to see him run.

Despite his own unsoundness ... he sired some very good race horses ... but you're right ... his line seems to not be breeding on ... although such things can be reversed quite suddenly. Antonius Pius and Survivalist may become the greatest stallions in the world.

The final chapter won't be written for another twenty years.

Are you guys serious? Danzig's male line is the Absolute top of the heap in Australasia right now. Danehill's sons are running the board over there. And some Danehills are doing fine in Europe, like Danehill Dancer (who had a G1 winner this morning in Ireland) and Tiger Hill in Germany, not to mention Desert King who sired Makybe Diva (3 Melbourne Cups). Sinndar has had group winners with his oldest only 4, Polish Precedent has sired Pilsudski (BC Turf among other G1 wins) and Rakti (Champion S, etc) and Polish Summer (Sheema Classic). . Lure was subfertile but he left G1 winner Orpen, who is sired a classic winner in his first crop. Bellamy Road will represent him over here, although his dad Concerto is still with us as well. This is not a struggling male line.

[Danzig]

danehill is the sire of rock of gibraltar, as well as cacique, banks hill, dansili, elvstroem, intercontinental, landseer, oratorio....countless others who have earned 6 figures, many millionaires.
as a shuttle stallion danehill has influenced racing from europe to hong kong, from australia to here in the u.s.
langfuhr sired wando and mobil....the influence of northern dancer thru sadlers wells and danehill thru danzig is worldwide, and will remain so thru the sons and daughters of those stallions.

danzig is the top stakes sire in north america by far. sadlers wells, also by northern dancer, is the top in europe. danehill, by danzig completed the triumvirate in australasia.

i'm not sure how much more danzig can do then what he's done....

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Are you guys serious? Danzig's male line is the Absolute top of the heap in Australasia right now. Danehill's sons are running the board over there. And some Danehills are doing fine in Europe, like Danehill Dancer (who had a G1 winner this morning in Ireland) and Tiger Hill in Germany, not to mention Desert King who sired Makybe Diva (3 Melbourne Cups). Sinndar has had group winners with his oldest only 4, Polish Precedent has sired Pilsudski (BC Turf among other G1 wins) and Rakti (Champion S, etc) and Polish Summer (Sheema Classic). . Lure was subfertile but he left G1 winner Orpen, who is sired a classic winner in his first crop. Bellamy Road will represent him over here, although his dad Concerto is still with us as well. This is not a struggling male line.

Yes, we know....Danehill is the lone bright spot.....and that is Australia dude, which is like breeding New Jersey breds....

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Are you guys serious? Danzig's male line is the Absolute top of the heap in Australasia right now.

Yeah ... but how are they doing in Mongolia and Belarus?

Nobody cares about Australasia, honey ... not even the Australasians.

Stick to cutting and pasting ... and stop insulting everyone else's intelligence with your fatuousness.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Antonius Pius and Survivalist may become the greatest stallions in the world.

The final chapter won't be written for another twenty years.

Yeah, maybe, but unlikely...Antonius Pius is a freakin lunatic and Survalist is a Grade 3 type but he could pan out in a smaller market like New York in the breeding shed.....Danehill is carving out a phenomial legacy but that is about it if you ask me...Langfuhr and Belong to Me are solid for $15K - $20K stud fee but thats it....War Chnt is a bust if you ask me...he got way too many good mares to not have any super racehorses IMO....

Hey, I think Danzig'z grandson Rock of Gibraltar has a solid chance to do something though....we'll see...

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

List 5 improtant horses that Chief's Crown sired...

Erhaab, winner of the Derby S (GB-G1), etc.
Chief Bearheart, winner of the BC Turf (G1), Canadian International Championship, etc.. Eclipse for Turf horse
Grand Lodge, champion 2yo in GB, Dewhurst S (G1-GB), St. James Palace S(G1-GB), etc.; sire of Derby and Arc winner Sinndar, etc.
Be My Chief, winner of Racing Post Tropy S (G1-GB), etc. sire of Donna Viola (Gamely H-G1, etc.), Hail the Chief (Hawthorne Gold Cup, etc.)
Azzam, winner of the Sidney Cup (G1-Aus), etc.
Istidaad, winner of the Australian Cup (G1-Aus)
Chief Honcho, winner of the Brooklyn H (G1), etc.
Concerto, winner of the Jim Beam S (G2) and Kentucky Jockey Club S (G2), sire of Bellamy Road (Wood Memorial-G1).

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Erhaab, winner of the Derby S (GB-G1), etc.
Chief Bearheart, winner of the BC Turf (G1), Canadian International Championship, etc.. Eclipse for Turf horse
Grand Lodge, champion 2yo in GB, Dewhurst S (G1-GB), St. James Palace S(G1-GB), etc.; sire of Derby and Arc winner Sinndar, etc.
Be My Chief, winner of Racing Post Tropy S (G1-GB), etc. sire of Donna Viola (Gamely H-G1, etc.), Hail the Chief (Hawthorne Gold Cup, etc.)
Azzam, winner of the Sidney Cup (G1-Aus), etc.
Istidaad, winner of the Australian Cup (G1-Aus)
Chief Honcho, winner of the Brooklyn H (G1), etc.
Concerto, winner of the Jim Beam S (G2) and Kentucky Jockey Club S (G2), sire of Bellamy Road (Wood Memorial-G1).

Comon Pedigree Anne...you know I was talking about sires - not race horses...he too got all the best mares in his hayday and still was a failure at stud to speak relatively....you know that....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Comon Pedigree Anne...you know I was talking about sires - not race horses...he too got all the best mares in his hayday and still was a failure at stud to speak relatively....you know that....

Annie is still waiting for a major comeback by her favorite ... the Sir Gallahad line ...

... and waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting ... and cutting ... and pasting ... and waiting ...

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

So horrible that he is now a Chef-de-race. Check the Roman site.

I hardly think that's a good argument. Buckaroo, I think is a chef-de-race, but AP Indy isn't. Nor is Unbridled, as a matter of fact. Dr. Romans seems to have been in hiding for the last several years.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I hardly think that's a good argument. Buckaroo, I think is a chef-de-race, but AP Indy isn't. Nor is Unbridled, as a matter of fact. Dr. Romans seems to have been in hiding for the last several years.

Actually, I agree with you - Roman stole Varola's work and coasted on it for a few years but seems to have lost interest. But I wouldn't call Buckaroo or Apalachee horrible stallions, either.

Varola was smart enough not to name any living stallions as chefs-de-race in his listings. Or at least none that hadn't had a full career already. Naming horses chefs mid-career has hazards.