2009 Graded Stakes

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Oaklawnfan

Does anyone think there's a chance in h*ll the Arkansas Derby will ever get a Grade I status?

Wasn't it a Grade I for about one or two years a few years ago?

I know this is probably a minority opinion, but the Arkansas Derby doesn't deserve Grade I status. Yes, it has had an impressive list of winners in the past few years, but the overall quality of its fields has been rather mediocre, and that's what the grade should reflect.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Wasn't it a Grade I for about one or two years a few years ago?

I know this is probably a minority opinion, but the Arkansas Derby doesn't deserve Grade I status. Yes, it has had an impressive list of winners in the past few years, but the overall quality of its fields has been rather mediocre, and that's what the grade should reflect.

it hasn't been a gr 1 in years (the oaklawn handicap on the other hand was a gr 1 until a few years ago, the dubai world cup has gutted that race), but has generally produced more top horses over the last few years than some other more respected preps-the blue grass for example. it's one of only two spring preps with a million dollar purse, the other being the gr 1 fla derby.
and i would think pretty much every race has a couple of good horses, followed by mediocrity, or less-for example, big browns fla derby this year.

the grading supposedly reflects what happens to top finishers in a race in subsequent starts. lawyer ron, afleet alex, smarty, curlin--good reasons to give it gr 1. also, several preps leading to the ark derby have received graded status-but it seems a bit odd that the last prep before the ark is a gr 2 as well-the winner of that race is to get the same black type as the presumed tougher race?
the only gr 1 at oaklawn now is the apple blossom.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Wasn't it a Grade I for about one or two years a few years ago?

I know this is probably a minority opinion, but the Arkansas Derby doesn't deserve Grade I status. Yes, it has had an impressive list of winners in the past few years, but the overall quality of its fields has been rather mediocre, and that's what the grade should reflect.

But Smarty Jones won it!!!! It has to be a Grade 1. He was the most greatest horsey to ever look through a bridle! Hell, the Count Fleet at Aqueduct should be a Grade 1 now too.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

But Smarty Jones won it!!!! It has to be a Grade 1. He was the most greatest horsey to ever look through a bridle! Hell, the Count Fleet at Aqueduct should be a Grade 1 now too.

[Scav]

I have a feeling that Arlington is going to get a couple more graded stakes in the future.

Their 1000 American Guineas race will end up being graded after it has run a couple more times and there is one other, can't think of it.

I have a feeling that the Secretariat Stakes might lose its Grade 1 label as the fields the last 3-4 years have been subpar, at best.....

[lemoncrush]

The AK Derby last year with Gayego and King Silver's Son or whomever...that was an awful field compared to previous years....could have more to do with the crop of 3-yo's last year than anything else.

My issue with Graded races is for 2-year olds. I just don't understand why there are so many Grade 1s and Grade 2s in the spring/early summer when it's basically a group of maiden winners entered. It's basically a first level allowance races masquerading as a G1 or G2 stakes race.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

The AK Derby last year with Gayego and King Silver's Son or whomever...that was an awful field compared to previous years....could have more to do with the crop of 3-yo's last year than anything else.

Considering Take of Slowkati won the Wood with Court Vision running third I think it has as much to do with the 3yos as anything. Can you really look at these horses from the last five years and say that the Arkansas Derby is definitely the worst?

Wood Memorial
2008 TALE OF EKATI WAR PASS COURT VISION 01:52.4
2007 NOBIZ LIKE SHOBIZ SIGHTSEEING ANY GIVEN SATURDAY 01:49.5
2006 BOB AND JOHN JAZIL KEYED ENTRY 01:51.5
2005 BELLAMY ROAD SURVIVALIST SCRAPPY T 01:47.2
2004 TAPIT MASTER DAVID EDDINGTON 01:49.7

Santa Anita Derby
2008 COLONEL JOHN BOB BLACK JACK COAST GUARD4 01:48.2
2007 TIAGO KING OF THE ROXY SAM P 01:49.5
2006 BROTHER DEREK POINT DETERMINED A P WARRIOR 01:48.0
2005 BUZZARDS BAY GENERAL JOHN B WILKO 01:49.2
2004 CASTLEDALE IMPERIALISM ROCK HARD TEN 01:49.2

Florida Derby
2008 BIG BROWN SMOOTH AIR TOMCITO 01:48.2
2007 SCAT DADDY NOTIONAL CHELOKEE 01:49.0
2006 BARBARO SHARP HUMOR SUNRIVER 01:49.0
2005 HIGH FLY NOBLE CAUSEWAY B B BEST 01:49.4
2004 FRIENDS LAKE VALUE PLUS THE CLIFFS EDGE 01:51.4

Arkansas Derby
2008 GAYEGO Z FORTUNE TRES BORRACHOS 01:49.6
2007 CURLIN STORM IN MAY DEADLY DEALER 01:50.1
2006 LAWYER RON STEPPENWOLFER PRIVATE VOW 01:51.4
2005 AFLEET ALEX FLOWER ALLEY ANDROMEDAS HERO 01:48.8
2004 SMARTY JONES BORREGO PRO PRADO 01:49.4

Blue Grass
2008 MONBA COWBOY CAL KENTUCKY BEAR 01:49.7
2007 DOMINICAN STREET SENSE ZANJERO 01:51.3
2006 SINISTER MINISTER STORM TREASURE STRONG CONTENDER 01:48.9
2005 BANDINI HIGH LIMIT CLOSING ARGUMENT 01:50.2
2004 THE CLIFFS EDGE LION HEART LIMEHOUSE 01:49.4


If people want to argue they should all be G2 then I can buy that. But the suggestion that the other four races should be G1 while the Arkansas Derby should be G2 based on the quality of the fields in the past five years is ridiculous.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

The AK Derby last year with Gayego and King Silver's Son or whomever...that was an awful field compared to previous years....could have more to do with the crop of 3-yo's last year than anything else.

My issue with Graded races is for 2-year olds. I just don't understand why there are so many Grade 1s and Grade 2s in the spring/early summer when it's basically a group of maiden winners entered. It's basically a first level allowance races masquerading as a G1 or G2 stakes race.

The pathetic quality of this years crop effected the Ark Derby this year. As for the 2yo G1's they are holdovers. There was a time when a races like the Hopeful or the Del Mar Futurity were the 4th or 5th start for a colt and he had actually proven something. The babies used to "sort themselves out" well before reaching those races. Now they go straight to races like the Hopeful. That's why they lost the G1 for the Futurity. When they go Maiden->G1 it weakens the G1 because the odds are that a big percentage of those "impressive" maiden winners won't turn out to be that much.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He was the most greatest horsey to ever look through a bridle!

And to think that I thought that described Curlin.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

But Smarty Jones won it!!!! It has to be a Grade 1. He was the most greatest horsey to ever look through a bridle! Hell, the Count Fleet at Aqueduct should be a Grade 1 now too.

Leave him alone you bully

[miraja2]

The Arkansas Derby was a G1 from 1981-1988.

[parsixfarms]

This article from the Bloodhorse summarizes the Committee's work for 2009: http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/48193.htm

First reaction is that, with the state of US racing today, it defies logic that there will be six new grade I races next year, with only one justifiable downgrade (the Suburban). The BC Filly and Mare Sprint is worthy of Grade I status, but the five others are really a stretch, especially Belmont's Jamaica Handicap (a grass race restricted to 3YOs that does not draw fields anywhere close in quality to the Garden City, the fall meet's companion race for 3YO fillies).

[blackthroatedwind]

This would, very possibly, be an unfortunate year for the Suburban to be downgraded. I'm not arguing that it shouldn't necessarily be reviewed, given some recent runnings, but I hope it is given at least one more chance.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This would, very possibly, be an unfortunate year for the Suburban to be downgraded. I'm not arguing that it shouldn't necessarily be reviewed, given some recent runnings, but I hope it is given at least one more chance.

I'm having a tough time stomaching the Jamaica Handicap as a bigger race than the Suburban.