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#1
06-06-2006, 05:58 PM
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it seems some trainers are chosen to be hated, while others get a pass even tho they lose a horse, or are arrogant (ahem, frankel...). lukas was always his own man, and did a lot his own way, and kind of stepped on some toes on his way up, because he was different. as they say, better dead than different. but the thing is, his methods worked. obviously. yet the poison remains. i remember when landaluce took ill and died, he was crucified by so many....yet no one who pointed fingers at him, claiming he killed her, want to know that he was in her stall, her head in his lap, crying when she died. nope, that doesn't quite fit for some. 
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#3
06-06-2006, 06:05 PM
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One of his (Phipps) was a beauty named Storm Flag Flying. Gosh, I loved her. DTS
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#4
06-06-2006, 06:27 PM
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i always cheer for phipps horses, black silks, cherry red cap. also any in the yellow of claiborne farm.
storm flag flying was a beauty on the track, very tenacious. hopefully she'll pass on those outstanding genes she inherited from her dam and grand-dam. SFF's win in the bc filly race was incredible. not something you get to see and enjoy every day.
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#5
06-07-2006, 01:21 AM
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now you wanna come at me personally mike(oracle)? you really dont wanna go that route when it comes to "morals". i dont care whether luka$$ wins or loses a 100 races in row the guys still a pr ick at the end of the day. hmmmmmm nobody had no comment bout him being a self cenetered a$ shole and talking the owners into running TCAS in the derby.........gee i wonder why. you also mentioned jordan whos arguably the most successful and greatest athlete ever and played in the city i hailed from. i loved watchin the guy on the court as much as any1 but hes also a cheat off the court amongst other things. just because you got prior success and money doesnt make you a saint as a person.......lol were some of you part of the jury during the oj trial?
hey debbie you really think antley ditched his wife and his unborn? cmon, you get blinded that easily? chris was murdered and the guy you got the hots for gary stevens pretty much believes the same thing amongst other people. allen jerkins is still getting the job done, we had a trainer in a wheelchair saddle a horse in the derby this year and you people wanna use age as a excuse for his decline in his particular profession? of course d wayne dont care how good or bad he does, its not his millions getting flushed down the toilet. luka$$' comments after "jockey" appeared on hbo just restated how much of a pri ck he is in saying he wouldnt feel sorry for shane sellers or any other jockey who drives 2 mercedes. well without those jocks d wayne dont feel sorry for he wins zero races and doesnt achieve the money and fame he did. you guys can talk 2 me till your blue in your collective faces about him, hes still a a$$hole
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#6
06-07-2006, 06:32 AM
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I'm sorry but noone cares about junkies Playa, junkies are a dime a dozen and a waste of space on this earth.
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#7
06-07-2006, 09:45 AM
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.....And he rips into PVal all the time. Dare I say the H word?
__________________
"I don't feel like that I am any better than anybody else" - Paul Newman
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#8
06-07-2006, 11:55 AM
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Monipenny, you do have some great points. I don't remember ever insulting Lukas's work ethic or committment. I have read the book on Charismatic and Lukas is quoted in there many times as saying how he missed the boat and screwed up with Charismatic. How he didn't think he was that good and had been concentrating on his other horses.
You wanted some facts on horses breaking down, well Richi just got done telling you some insurance companies won't even touch his horses. You think Pletcher and others have that problem? His also noted hsi 2 year olds were taking steroids. I'm sure that has nothing to do with all his breakdowns or the fact that he never had any talent training with older horses. Listen, this guy has had many accomplishments, but blindly supporting him like you and others are doing is riduculous.
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#9
06-07-2006, 12:04 PM
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Also, why has no Lukas supporter offered up a real reason that this guy has been terrible the past few years? Don't give me his sons injury. THis was very trajic, buy many great trainers and coaches have had bad things happen and their life and none of them have gone from a 30% winner to a 5% winner.
The way I see it there are a couple possible explanations. Lukas isn't getting near the quality of horses he used to. I don't think anyone would argue with this, but that really makes all of his accomplishments look like they only occurred because he had all the money for all the best horses. Or, he was ahead of the time on the pharmacy end of the sport and everyone caught up. If this is the case it makes all his accomplishments look like they were based on chemicals not his talent. Don't tell me it's his age. If that was true, we would see a gradual downfall ove r the years not this. Plus many great trainers have continued to be great at his age. SO why does he suddenly struggle so bad?
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#10
06-07-2006, 04:56 PM
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A good friend always help you out with your faults.
__________________
"I don't feel like that I am any better than anybody else" - Paul Newman
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#11
06-07-2006, 05:18 PM
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and yes, i do think CA ditched his family. he was an addict, and he wasn't strong enough to overcome it. do i think he intended to DIE? no. but his actions led to his demise, to his wife being a widow, and his child born already half an orphan. saving a horse no more makes antley a hero than running thousand yard seasons made oj a good person! and i KNEW richi would show up in this thread. funny, i was just reading in bloodhorse about the rampant steroid use by so many trainers. as for hendricks..a lot of trainers get the good horse. that's luck. lukas had a ton of them, that's skill. also, i must be an *******, i don't feel bad for drivers of two mercedes either.
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#12
06-07-2006, 05:45 PM
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I live here in Cali and the whole C.A. thing is old, the whole time Chris was on T.V. being interviewed about him kicking his "demons" after he won the Derby was such crap its unreal . I was at a party that he was at about a week after he won the Preakness , the guy was so ripped when he walked in the door that he was there 5 mins and started a fight with Matt Garcia over some 17 yr. old girl that he thought was his "date". That being said, I do believe Chris met with foul play regarding his death, there were just to many things that didnt make sense and not nearly enough investigating of the people that were on his property when he was found dead. As for Lukas , you can respect him for his ability to get one ready and ruin one quicker than anybody , nobody has ever done a finer job.
__________________
Horses are like strawberries....they can go bad overnight. Charlie Whittingham
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#13
06-07-2006, 06:07 PM
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#14
06-07-2006, 06:32 PM
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Wayne Lukas has accomplished alot of things that most likely wont be repeated in my lifetime......still doesnt mean I like the way he trains,thats just me. To wish someone bad luck is inviting your own karma.
__________________
Horses are like strawberries....they can go bad overnight. Charlie Whittingham
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#15
06-06-2006, 06:04 PM
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Everybody runs there course. Heck they they wanted Paterno out of Penn State for a few years recently. What happened? He had a great season. Where was the talk from before. It happens every year with everyone.
Can we get rid of this thread? Let me re-state this. This thread actually has some good comments. But can we get the Title change. At least change it to Lukas Fading! This board shouldn't allow such titles.
__________________
"I don't feel like that I am any better than anybody else" - Paul Newman Last edited by Crown@club : 06-06-2006 at 06:12 PM.
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#16
06-06-2006, 09:51 PM
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Just thought I would throw this in. Been reading this thread. I thought the job he did with Spain was incredible. Just my opinion.
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#17
06-06-2006, 10:13 PM
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This is my opinion. I have worked with horses all of my life, and those of you who have not worked with them don't understand how incredibly hard it is to do what trainers like Todd Pletcher, Bob Baffert, Bobby Frankel, Nick Zito, Steve Asmussen, and D. Wayne Luckas (just to name a few) have done. To train that many champions is incredible, and I am not so quick to judge trainers or jockeys anymore because I know first-hand what can go wrong with a horse. Horses are such fragile creatures, and what is worse is they can't tell you when something may be hurting them a little bit. For example, in reality (and don't attack me for this), Barbaro COULD HAVE HAD some sort of an injury before they ever put him in the starting gate that went undetected because some injuries are so hard to find. It is a gamble, and EVERYONE involved with horses usually makes a few huge mistakes in their career just because this is a sport where it is so easy to make mistakes, and it is a sport in which anything can go wrong. Unfortunately, some of those mistakes turn into fatalities or retirements. That is the sport of horse racing...the sport of kings. It is not for the faint-hearted. As for D. Wayne Lukas, he may have over-stepped his boundaries more than normal in the past few years. I must admit that the stunt he pulled with Going Wild last year infuriated me to no end. D. Wayne Luckas may be in a slump, and he may have made some bad desicions in the past few years, but EVERY trainer will go through this sometime in their career. In fact, who am I to judge someone who has given so much to the sport, and who has produced champion after champion after champion? One thing is for sure, I will never forget that terrific run for the Triple Crown that he gave us with Charismatic back in 1999.
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#18
06-06-2006, 11:08 PM
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I respect you and anyone that has ever worked with horses. I would never try to say I knew 1% of what people who have worked with them know. However, with D.Wayne, I have to stick to my guns. He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen and don't tell me it is because of the volume of horses he ran. Asmussen, Pletcher and others have just as many horses and 1/10th of the amount of horses breaking down as D.Wayne has over the years. Also, the other great trainers that have been mentioned all have great records with older and younger horses. D.Wayne's horses and stats fall apart once he burns the horses up at 2 and 3. Yes, he's had many champions, but bought every horse at every sale that looked like they might have an ounce of talent. How about some of the little trainers out there that never have any talent in their barns that still manage to produce a champion. These are the guys who should be talked about. Also, look at all the great trainers that came out of D.Wayne's stable. I know this is a plus for Lukas as a teacher, but also a minus as to did all the work making some of those past champions.
Also as to Charismatic, remember again, Lukas had him in Maiden Claimer. He had given up on the horse before he ran. How many other great horses might have Lukas have had in his barn if hadn't given up on them right away like he did time and time again?
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#19
06-07-2006, 12:33 AM
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When Asmussen and Pletcher hit 70 years old, maybe you can tally up all the breakdowns they have had and then make this statement.
Unless you have numbers to prove it, this statement isn't necessarily true. Do you know how many horses Asmussen has had break down? Pletcher? What about all the 2 year olds that snapped a leg before they ever race? 1/10th of D. Wayne's breakdowns? "He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen" I feel like the above statement is an unqualified one.
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