Breeders' Cup; some thoughts

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

I can't profess to know a great deal about the European horses that ran in the Breeders' Cup, let alone the Americans but, having watched the races, some things stand out:

Breeders' Cup Marathon...aside from the fact that this is arguably the most preposterously named race ever conceived (BC 2m4f race, anyone?), the Europeans were always likely to have the better horses, the fact that a horse who essentially is a handicapper wound up winning it devalues the race and the Breeders' Cup as a whole. A poor recruit to the Breeders' Cup franchise.

Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint...again a nothing of a race. Relatively speaking these were poor horses, the best of them, Fleeting Spirit, doesn't stay what is laughingly called a Sprint (6.5f???...at least she wasn't asked to see out the 7f that is the fillies and mares version...begs the question of whether the only way they can justify having three sprint races over the two days is by having them over distances which aren't sprints). Diabolical, a horse who this season has been shown up in Group 2 company, and arsed in Group 1 company, shaped like the best horse on the day, racing a bit too close to a ludicrous gallop. The winner, whose name I can't remember, was flattered.

Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile....another race which detracts from the event as a whole, providing horses with easier options. The horse with the stand0out form, Well Armed, shaped as if amiss, his run too bad to be true. The winner, Albertus Maximus, probably hasn't needed to run above 123 or so to beat an ordinary field (given the Group 1 status).

Breeders' Cup Mile...a better race than the preceding event, and the winner was better than the winning margin, too, absolutely tanking over the rest of the field turning in, when not getting a run, sprinting clear when the gap arrived; the runner-up sets a solid standard and the French filly rates an above-average winner of the race, at the same time highlighting the fact that Zarkava, who essentially wanked over her in the French Guineas, is (or was) and exceptional filly. US Ranger is a dog of the highest order.

Breeders' Cup Juvenile...Midshipman is a horse I associate with low-grade races at Wolverhampton, but the American version is clearly a good deal more classy. That said, the fact that he's beaten Sirenia runner-up Square Eddie doesn't fill me with confidence that this was a stellar renewal, in fact it almost certainly wasn't, the horse with the best form, Bushranger, never likely to be suited by this sort of trip (connections, with a view to breeding, evidently running him more in hope than expectation), and not running his race.

Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf...Donativum had his claims well advertised by Crowded House earlier in the day and, whilst not one of the best, anyone who didn't back him needs shooting! Haha! Westphalia didn't do anything wrong yet still looked like an absolute hound whilst doing it.

Breeders' Cup Sprint...A fine training performance to get Midnight Lute, who has evidently had problems, back to win the race again. He looked a cut above last year and showed here that he's the best sprinter in the world (allowing for the fact that the Aussies will probably come up with something to show me wrong), beating the gallant Fatal Bullet with a bit to spare. The "pro-ride" surface did seem well suited to closers, but I don't think that any of those that raced close up had any excuse other than going a mite too fast.

Breeders' Cup Turf...Conduit always looked to have more pace than your average St Leger winner and he proved as much under the best jockey in the world, Ryan Moore giving him a faultless ride. At the same time the jockeys on Better Talk Now and Grand Couturier deserve banning for a length of time, their efforts verging on non-trying, giving the respective horses no chance (I appreciate the fact that the latter may have been unsuited by the ground, but that doesn't excuse a shockingly misjugded ride). Query re Red Rock Canyon: surely you shouln't be allowed to run a pacemaker in a supposed World Chamionship race?

Breeders' Cup Classic...if the synthetic surface is a true leveller then they shouldn't have races on the turf, and I only say that having backed Raven's Pass to win the Mile several months ago! This is the horse who looked a superstar at the back-end of last season and has belatedly proved as much, first when beating Henrythenavigator at Ascot and, more so, here, showing himself to be the best Flat horse in the world. Henrythenavigator ran well but the second half of 2008 has emphasised the fact that he's simply not as good as the winner for all early-season impressions, whilst Curlin had every chance, ran his race, simply not as good as at this time last year/in Dubai in March, the different surface certainly no excuse, beaten by better horses. Understandable that connections of Casino Drive would want to make it a test, but he's clearly no front runner.

Thanks for the European view. When you guys bother to have such an event we will pick your event apart for you.

[Hwjb]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Thanks for the European view. When you guys bother to have such an event we will pick your event apart for you.

We do. Thanks for noticing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

We do. Thanks for noticing.

Do you? I guess the rest of us must have missed it...

[Hwjb]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Do you? I guess the rest of us must have missed it...

Arc, Grand Criterium, Marcel Boussac, Abbaye, Opera, Prix de la Foret, Cadran, Dollar, Daniel Wildenstein, all in two day's racing. Feel free to pick it apart.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Arc, Grand Criterium, Marcel Boussac, Abbaye, Opera, Prix de la Foret, Cadran, Dollar, Daniel Wildenstein, all in two day's racing. Feel free to pick it apart.

which one is the dirt mile?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Arc, Grand Criterium, Marcel Boussac, Abbaye, Opera, Prix de la Foret, Cadran, Dollar, Daniel Wildenstein, all in two day's racing. Feel free to pick it apart.

Nice, a guy from England using French racing as his defense. How many of these races have a million dollar purse let alone $25 million over the two days?
Not to mention that swamp that they run over.

[Hwjb]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Nice, a guy from England using French racing as his defense. How many of these races have a million dollar purse let alone $25 million over the two days?
Not to mention that swamp that they run over.

Being English I'm unable to appreciate the merits of a French meeting, is that what you mean? That's sound logic.
Historical cache vs multi-million purses? You'd have Dubai World Cup day as the best meeting of the year I assume?
How did the track go down at Monmouth last year? At least with this turf, you don't have to go replacing and relaying it all the time.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Being English I'm unable to appreciate the merits of a French meeting, is that what you mean? That's sound logic.
Historical cache vs multi-million purses? You'd have Dubai World Cup day as the best meeting of the year I assume?
How did the track go down at Monmouth last year? At least with this turf, you don't have to go replacing and relaying it all the time.

Listen you said that you had an event similar to the breeders Cup. You dont. The races you mentioned are nice races but hardly the equal of the Breeders Cup especially in terms of monetary value. You yourself noted that you did not know much about the participants yet managed to rundown each race and the event as a whole. The Dubai World Cup is a pretty good meeting no?

Personally I thought the grass sprint was the best addition.

Chunk the remaining.
Also get rid of the juvy's.

ahhh maybe keep the "dirt" mile and make the classic 1.5 miles.
If the three year olds have the Belmont stakes after having to
endure the first two legs...

And keep the Euros coming over. It makes for a better event.
Its good for them to take our money and leave.
I likes the competition.

My contribution.
More Euros that come over and beat our butts the more
notice the event gets. And personally I have always liked
the one day event.

[magic_idol]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Personally I thought the grass sprint was the best addition.

Chunk the remaining.
Also get rid of the juvy's.

ahhh maybe keep the "dirt" mile and make the classic 1.5 miles.
If the three year olds have the Belmont stakes after having to
endure the first two legs...

And keep the Euros coming over. It makes for a better event.
Its good for them to take our money and leave.
I likes the competition.

My contribution.
More Euros that come over and beat our butts the more
notice the event gets. And personally I have always liked
the one day event.

Change when the event is held make it the best horses from around the world unfortunately it is held right in the middle of our major event so i doubt you will ever see the best of downunder horses there

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Nice, a guy from England using French racing as his defense. How many of these races have a million dollar purse let alone $25 million over the two days?
Not to mention that swamp that they run over.

Chuck the purse is completely irrelevant get a grip?
WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE FN PURSE THE MOSS'S THE PHIPPS THE TABORS OH THE WEBBER? CHUCK ONLY THE TRAINERS CARE ABOUT THE PURSE

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck the purse is completely irrelevant get a grip?
WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE FN PURSE THE MOSS'S THE PHIPPS THE TABORS OH THE WEBBER? CHUCK ONLY THE TRAINERS CARE ABOUT THE PURSE

Please dont send this to Churchill Downs....they may actually believe it and stop paying purses

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck the purse is completely irrelevant get a grip?
WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE FN PURSE THE MOSS'S THE PHIPPS THE TABORS OH THE WEBBER? CHUCK ONLY THE TRAINERS CARE ABOUT THE PURSE

Trophies were damn heavy.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck the purse is completely irrelevant get a grip?
WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE FN PURSE THE MOSS'S THE PHIPPS THE TABORS OH THE WEBBER? CHUCK ONLY THE TRAINERS CARE ABOUT THE PURSE

you do realize there are a lot more owners without those kind of bucks than with, right? and then the jock, the groom, etc. it's not as tho those kinds of purses are handed out all day, every day, at every track.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Arc, Grand Criterium, Marcel Boussac, Abbaye, Opera, Prix de la Foret, Cadran, Dollar, Daniel Wildenstein, all in two day's racing. Feel free to pick it apart.

OK, I will.

I've been to Arc weekend, and think it's a great event, but comparing it to the BC makes no sense whatsoever. The BC provides races, and opportunities, from the very beginning, for Europeans to do what they are trained for....i.e turf racing. Now they have gone a step further, and provided another surface that mitigates the excellence of our horses while enhancing the chances of the Euros ( which, by the way, are often US bred ).

Until Longchamp, or Royal Ascot, put in a dirt course and put up a series of races that provide opportunities for our horses to shine you cannot fairly compare any days, or meets, over there to the BC.

[The Bid]

The Euros arent stupid enough to alter their tradition rich racing, only we are.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Bid

The Euros arent stupid enough to alter their tradition rich racing, only we are.

Yes and no.

The BC is far from " tradition rich. " It is actually nouveau riche.