Tips/Thoughts on Breeders' Cup tickets this year?

Cannon Shell · #1 10-25-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

by the same token, they said earlier in the show that it takes longer to catch horses on the awt's. maybe that was his thinking as well?
hard to say. he rode like he had the best horse, and all year, he has had the best horse.
too bad he's going out like this. curlin hadn't lost on dirt since the haskell. er, real dirt.

He made the move that won most of the BC "dirt" races this year. Just wasnt good enough. Losing to Ravens Pass isnt something to be ashamed of. Getting outfinished for third by Tiago is. The last 2 races he won by small margins over weak horses were chalked up to his only doing what he had to do to win. I still believe he just isnt as great as his fans believe him to be and has been fortunate to run in the era of the worst older horses, probably ever. He is a very good horse but not in the top 50 of all time and certainly not the best of the last 25 years. Clever Trevor, by the way, would be a full fledged star nowadays.

pba1817 · #2 10-25-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He made the move that won most of the BC "dirt" races this year. Just wasnt good enough. Losing to Ravens Pass isnt something to be ashamed of. Getting outfinished for third by Tiago is. The last 2 races he won by small margins over weak horses were chalked up to his only doing what he had to do to win. I still believe he just isnt as great as his fans believe him to be and has been fortunate to run in the era of the worst older horses, probably ever. He is a very good horse but not in the top 50 of all time and certainly not the best of the last 25 years. Clever Trevor, by the way, would be a full fledged star nowadays.

Agreed.

Seattleallstar · #3 10-25-2008, 10:05 PM

Curlin would get his ass handed to him by Zarkava just like Rags bitched slapped him in Belmont

Danzig · #4 10-25-2008, 10:23 PM

one question i have...after seeing how the classic went, how would zenyatta have handled the race?

GPK · #5 10-25-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

Curlin would get his ass handed to him by Zarkava just like Rags bitched slapped him in Belmont

Jerry...I can't think of a horse in this world that Zarkava wouldn't bitch slap. She is a freak of nature.

Betsy · #6 10-25-2008, 11:04 PM

I have no feelings for or against Curlin, but I didn't understand Randy Moss' comment that the Classic in NO WAY (I capitalized this because that's how strongly he said it) diminishes his reputation. Now this I dispute. It's not fair to say that had he won, Curlin would have been the best horse in the last 25 years (I wonder who decided that, by the way) because, presumably, he'd have overcome an unfamilar surface and tough Euro challengers, yet in the same breath say that the loss has no effect on his standing in racing history. You can't have it both ways. I don't think Curlin's reputation as a very good horse was diminished, but his historical reputation as a great horse was.

Danzig · #7 10-25-2008, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

I have no feelings for or against Curlin, but I didn't understand Randy Moss' comment that the Classic in NO WAY (I capitalized this because that's how strongly he said it) diminishes his reputation. Now this I dispute. It's not fair to say that had he won, Curlin would have been the best horse in the last 25 years (I wonder who decided that, by the way) because, presumably, he'd have overcome an unfamilar surface and tough Euro challengers, yet in the same breath say that the loss has no effect on his standing in racing history. You can't have it both ways. I don't think Curlin's reputation as a very good horse was diminished, but his historical reputation as a great horse was.

i think he meant it shouldn't diminish what he's accomplished up to today.

Betsy · #8 10-26-2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think he meant it shouldn't diminish what he's accomplished up to today.

Well, yes - that's absolutely true. ESPN was full of drama queens today, though. Was it William Nack doing those breathless profiles of various horses? Every time Curlin's name was mentioned, it was always followed by "possibly/probably best horse of the last 25 years". Annoying. Nonetheless, there's nothing to knock about this guy.

Danzig · #9 10-25-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He made the move that won most of the BC "dirt" races this year. Just wasnt good enough. Losing to Ravens Pass isnt something to be ashamed of. Getting outfinished for third by Tiago is. The last 2 races he won by small margins over weak horses were chalked up to his only doing what he had to do to win. I still believe he just isnt as great as his fans believe him to be and has been fortunate to run in the era of the worst older horses, probably ever. He is a very good horse but not in the top 50 of all time and certainly not the best of the last 25 years. Clever Trevor, by the way, would be a full fledged star nowadays.

i agree with your post in its entirety! no doubt you'll sleep better knowing that.

Cannon Shell · #10 10-25-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i agree with your post in its entirety! no doubt you'll sleep better knowing that.

I rarely sleep...

Danzig · #11 10-25-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I rarely sleep...

i can relate to that.

2Hot4TV · #12 10-26-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He made the move that won most of the BC "dirt" races this year. Just wasnt good enough. Losing to Ravens Pass isnt something to be ashamed of. Getting outfinished for third by Tiago is. The last 2 races he won by small margins over weak horses were chalked up to his only doing what he had to do to win. I still believe he just isnt as great as his fans believe him to be and has been fortunate to run in the era of the worst older horses, probably ever. He is a very good horse but not in the top 50 of all time and certainly not the best of the last 25 years. Clever Trevor, by the way, would be a full fledged star nowadays.

LoL I needed Curlin to finish 3rd and started crying when Tiago went by him.

Beaten by Tiago and its the surface?????Maybe Curlin is on a down cycle?

Cannon Shell · #13 10-26-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

LoL I needed Curlin to finish 3rd and started crying when Tiago went by him.

Beaten by Tiago and its the surface?????Maybe Curlin is on a down cycle?

I would like to know how the surface is blamed for Curlin's loss other than him finishing 4th. It is one of those things that cant be quantified exactly. His last2 races have not been great and he made his run and got to the lead in the stretch. Maybe, just maybe, he isnt this invincible superhorse that has been fed to us all year. He is a very good horse, there is no shame in simply being a very good horse.

The Bid · #14 10-26-2008, 12:20 PM

Although Im not a Curlin lover, I dont think there is any question that he beats Raven's Pass, and Henry the Navigator on dirt.

Its the result that has to happen. The Americans better be ready to get smoked every single classic thats ran on a synthetic surface. We do not breed good horses to go that far on a grass substitute.

Comedy

The Bid · #15 10-26-2008, 12:25 PM

Hes exactly like Mineshaft down to his dimwitted jockey. They are the same kind of horse, same talent level. Hes not great, hes certainly very, very good. Even being very good hes proven that he cannot win on grass, and he cannot win on synthetic.

A very good question was posed to me...Can not winning on grass, and not winning on synthetic hurt Curlin's stallion value? I think it has to hurt, why would someone breed to a horse who regardless of their outstanding talent couldnt win on either of those surfaces?

I look forward to the next superstar Euro 3yo coming over and beating our best next year in the classic. It will not be until CHD holds the Breeders Cup the Americans win.

10 pnt move up · #16 10-26-2008, 12:34 PM

Curlin is a very nice horse for sure but I dont think he was as good as Mineshaft on natural ability, and I definitely think he gets dusted by Ghostzapper. Thats just horses from the past 6 years.

Curlin never whipped a horse like Easy Goer, which Sunday Silence did. Curlin is not in the same class as those two horses.

Danzig · #17 10-26-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Hes exactly like Mineshaft down to his dimwitted jockey. They are the same kind of horse, same talent level. Hes not great, hes certainly very, very good. Even being very good hes proven that he cannot win on grass, and he cannot win on synthetic.

A very good question was posed to me...Can not winning on grass, and not winning on synthetic hurt Curlin's stallion value? I think it has to hurt, why would someone breed to a horse who regardless of their outstanding talent couldnt win on either of those surfaces?

I look forward to the next superstar Euro 3yo coming over and beating our best next year in the classic. It will not be until CHD holds the Breeders Cup the Americans win.

i don't think his one start on both surfaces will hurt his stud value. also, smart strike is inside the top ten for synthetic sires, so it seems the genes are there.

miraja2 · #18 10-26-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm still not sure who has been saying he's an invincible superhorse. He's clearly not and anyone that followed the game last year realizes it. I don't even remember people on here talking about him like that. Or, even calling him great for that matter. I suppose if you take the guys at ESPN seriously, maybe they have, but who listens to them anyway?

This is a good point, and this thread probably did not even need to be created. It is probably best to ignore people like Tessitore.
He just said it so many damn times yesterday, that I got pissed and simply couldn't ignore it any longer.

Danzig · #19 10-26-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

This is a good point, and this thread probably did not even need to be created. It is probably best to ignore people like Tessitore.
He just said it so many damn times yesterday, that I got pissed and simply couldn't ignore it any longer.

he was absolutely nerve wracking. just think if big brown had been there. good lord. we were spared further nauseating hyperbole for sure. bad enough having just the one..ahem..superhorse in there.
but hey, curlin did beat that monster from the far east!!

Smooth Operator · #20 10-26-2008, 01:21 PM

Thank you Racing Gods ... was sooooooooo satisfying seeing that 'champion' (in-a-bottle-of-Winstrol) get exposed yesterday by a couple good Euros ... and even the mediocre Tiago, to boot. The only disappointing thing about the contest was the fact that Big Brownroid wasn't in there to take his inevitable beating too.

Curlie (and Big Brownroid, for that matter) was clearly nothing special when he wasn't getting his regular 'roid fix. Couldn't care less how much money he made beating the usual mules this season. He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as a truly brilliant recent champion like Ghostzapper.