Tips/Thoughts on Breeders' Cup tickets this year?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Linny

The typical "elite" US turf horse is far below the best of the Euro's, year in and year out. Grand Couturier raced in Europe and was a "listed stakes" type there. Red Rocks (who could have dominated this season, if sound) was no better than a G3 horse there. When he ran with G1 horses in Europe (Manduro, Dylan Thomas, Duke of Marmalade, Soldier of Fortune, Youmzain) he was nowhere. In fact he was crushed by Dr. Dino who is not regarded as "elite" in Europe, even though he's won G1 in Europe and Asia. Now, RR does move up here because of Lasix (etc) he's still not in the league of those mentioned above.

GC also loves a soft turf course, the SA course will not likely suit him. Dancing Forever like hard turf but I don't see him having the clas of Soldier of Fortune. I'd consider Conduit from Sir Michael Stoute. He loves 12f and has handled "firmer" going in Europe. If he looks like a G2 horse, refer to the first paragraph of this post.

Red Rocks has displayed a preference for firm turf, which may help explain why he's struggled in Europe and ran well vs. Curlin here. . .

[blackthroatedwind]

You're exagerating. Grand Couturier raced in two Group races in Europe, he ran third, beaten a neck for all the money in a Group 2, and he ran in a Group 1, won by eventual Arc winner Rail Link, where he finished fourth and lost second ( to Red Rocks ) by a neck. He was better than a " listed " horse in Europe. He, like Red Rocks, may also have benefited from Lasix.

As for Red Rocks, he hasn't raced since mid July, was scratched out of the Sword Dancer, and was pretty absent from training from what I understand ( he was absent from the work tab for 45 days ). To me, his talent is irrelevent, and I wouldn't go anywhere near him.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're exagerating. Grand Couturier raced in two Group races in Europe, he ran third, beaten a neck for all the money in a Group 2, and he ran in a Group 1, won by eventual Arc winner Rail Link, where he finished fourth and lost second ( to Red Rocks ) by a neck. He was better than a " listed " horse in Europe. He, like Red Rocks, may also have benefited from Lasix.

As for Red Rocks, he hasn't raced since mid July, was scratched out of the Sword Dancer, and was pretty absent from training from what I understand ( he was absent from the work tab for 45 days ). To me, his talent is irrelevent, and I wouldn't go anywhere near him.

Do you like Grand Couturier ?