So..no more free speech?

timmgirvan · #1 09-28-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i may be incorrect, or oversimplifying, but isn't what makes a person jewish their religious belief? i don't see how you can say that hitlers annihilation of so many jews had nothing to do with their religion. doesn't it have everything to do with it? down thru the centuries, many countries at one point or another expelled their jewish citizens, or encouraged much worse. the group as a whole always seemed an easy target, a scapegoat for whatever ailed the populace as a whole.

It is simplistic, and incorrect! The Jews,downtrodden and besmirched as they are, have a knack for being shrewd business people. It brings them much harrassment and the vitrol spewed at their race has nothing to do with their religion. For example..they don't recruit....Christians,Mormon,JW's,Islam all do. Their religion, and their culture is almost inclusive(like Amish) but they will always have a tourist shop.

Danzig · #2 09-28-2008, 04:49 PM

their 'knack' as you call it for business....i would call that a bit of a stereotype. for years and years-centuries really, back to the middle ages, they had no venue opened to them for business, with many turning to money- lending as most other trades were illegal for jews. so, along with getting harrassed for their religion, they were attacked for usury, and by those who owed them money-or by those who knew they had money, else how could they lend it?
but what it all boils down to, all these centuries, is their religious beliefs. it's because of their faith that they were confined to ghettoes, banned from most trades, attacked, beaten, killed, charged with witchcraft, killing and eating good little christian children, etc, etc.

#3 09-28-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

their 'knack' as you call it for business....i would call that a bit of a stereotype. for years and years-centuries really, back to the middle ages, they had no venue opened to them for business, with many turning to money- lending as most other trades were illegal for jews. so, along with getting harrassed for their religion, they were attacked for usury, and by those who owed them money-or by those who knew they had money, else how could they lend it?
but what it all boils down to, all these centuries, is their religious beliefs. it's because of their faith that they were confined to ghettoes, banned from most trades, attacked, beaten, killed, charged with witchcraft, killing and eating good little christian children, etc, etc.

I would also.

Not true in Germany in the late 30's and 40's.
They were very active in Germany in trade and as merchant's but when
WWI ended and the depression came on, they became targets largely because of economic misperceptions. Easy targets.

Danzig · #4 09-28-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

I would also.

Not true in Germany in the late 30's and 40's.They were very active in Germany in trade and as merchant's but when
WWI ended and the depression came on, they became targets largely because of economic misperceptions. Easy targets.

i'm talking about further back then the last century...altho in rome, they were still kept in a 'ghetto' where the germans marched most of the inhabitants out of rome right under the pope's nose, nary a word of protest from that fellow.

#5 09-28-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm talking about further back then the last century...altho in rome, they were still kept in a 'ghetto' where the germans marched most of the inhabitants out of rome right under the pope's nose, nary a word of protest from that fellow.

Causing John Paul to issue a formal apology.
Something that might not come from the current Pope.

Galileo is off the hook also.
Im sure he is happy about that.

timmgirvan · #6 09-28-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

Causing John Paul to issue a formal apology.
Something that might not come from the current Pope.

Galileo is off the hook also.
Im sure he is happy about that.

I was raised in Catholic schools and they truly blamed the Jews for "killing Christ" Don't know what the new Pope thinks about it.

Danzig · #7 09-28-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

Causing John Paul to issue a formal apology.
Something that might not come from the current Pope.

Galileo is off the hook also.
Im sure he is happy about that.

i read that the new pope said pius didn't sit and do nothing, which i would strongly disagree with.

i also saw the other day that CoE apologized to Darwin--that good man however has yet to make a reply.

Mortimer · #8 09-28-2008, 06:10 PM

I'm going to spend the next 5 years in a coo-coo house.

I will learn their habits and mating calls and come back to argue about them.

timmgirvan · #9 09-28-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

their 'knack' as you call it for business....i would call that a bit of a stereotype. for years and years-centuries really, back to the middle ages, they had no venue opened to them for business, with many turning to money- lending as most other trades were illegal for jews. so, along with getting harrassed for their religion, they were attacked for usury, and by those who owed them money-or by those who knew they had money, else how could they lend it?
but what it all boils down to, all these centuries, is their religious beliefs. it's because of their faith that they were confined to ghettoes, banned from most trades, attacked, beaten, killed, charged with witchcraft, killing and eating good little christian children, etc, etc.

I resisted expanding on that stereotype,but nevertheless you explained it. 2 things,though....what is it about their religion is so offensive(like I said..they don't infringe on others beliefs) and secondly...what makes you think they were burned as witches and that stuff?

Danzig · #10 09-28-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

I resisted expanding on that stereotype,but nevertheless you explained it. 2 things,though....what is it about their religion is so offensive(like I said..they don't infringe on others beliefs) and secondly...what makes you think they were burned as witches and that stuff?

i'm a history nut, have an extensive collection of history books, mostly on european countries covering different eras, as well as the crusades and such. there were a variety of accusations against jews over the centuries, some pretty awful stuff. witchcraft was just one of the many excuses people used to expel the jews from their country (france in particular favored that action) as well as repeatedly charging them with usury and confiscating their wealth. and of course any crimes committed against jews pretty much went without investigation or punishment of the offender.
various kings had no qualms about borrowing money from their jewish citizens...paying it back on the other hand-well, that was a different story.

as for what is so offensive-you'd have to ask those who are offended by the jews-generally it seems it's based on disagreements over religion. shocking!

Mortimer · #11 09-28-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm a history nut, have an extensive collection of history books, mostly on european countries covering different eras, as well as the crusades and such. there were a variety of accusations against jews over the centuries, some pretty awful stuff. witchcraft was just one of the many excuses people used to expel the jews from their country (france in particular favored that action) as well as repeatedly charging them with usury and confiscating their wealth. and of course any crimes committed against jews pretty much went without investigation or punishment of the offender.
various kings had no qualms about borrowing money from their jewish citizens...paying it back on the other hand-well, that was a different story.

as for what is so offensive-you'd have to ask those who are offended by the jews-generally it seems it's based on disagreements over religion. shocking!

What do you know about the history of fellatio-poo?

Danzig · #12 09-28-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortimer

What do you know about the history of fellatio-poo?

sorry, not in the books i've collected. i'll have to read up on that and get back to ya.

Mortimer · #13 09-28-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

sorry, not in the books i've collected. i'll have to read up on that and get back to ya.

Good deal.

Looking forward to it.

timmgirvan · #14 09-28-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm a history nut, have an extensive collection of history books, mostly on european countries covering different eras, as well as the crusades and such. there were a variety of accusations against jews over the centuries, some pretty awful stuff. witchcraft was just one of the many excuses people used to expel the jews from their country (france in particular favored that action) as well as repeatedly charging them with usury and confiscating their wealth. and of course any crimes committed against jews pretty much went without investigation or punishment of the offender.
various kings had no qualms about borrowing money from their jewish citizens...paying it back on the other hand-well, that was a different story.

as for what is so offensive-you'd have to ask those who are offended by the jews-generally it seems it's based on disagreements over religion. shocking!

You're in the ballpark...I'll give you that. Possibly "way of life" instead of their religion,huh? I've never heard anyone say that the Torah sucks or stuff of that ilk.....maybe it's a 'race' thing.

dalakhani · #15 09-28-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

You're in the ballpark...I'll give you that. Possibly "way of life" instead of their religion,huh? I've never heard anyone say that the Torah sucks or stuff of that ilk.....maybe it's a 'race' thing.

Suddenly Timmigirvan is giving history lessons. LOL

Next we will see the locusts coming over the hills because indeed the the apocolypse is near.

Maybe pgardn will want to argue whether or not the apocolypse will include locusts or if it was merely metaphoric reference in the bible.

timmgirvan · #16 09-28-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Suddenly Timmigirvan is giving history lessons. LOL

Next we will see the locusts coming over the hills because indeed the the apocolypse is near.

Maybe pgardn will want to argue whether or not the apocolypse will include locusts or if it was merely metaphoric reference in the bible.

You apparently don't know that you have no credibilty. Like I said, Call for a refund on that schoolin....

Danzig · #17 09-28-2008, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

You're in the ballpark...I'll give you that. Possibly "way of life" instead of their religion,huh? I've never heard anyone say that the Torah sucks or stuff of that ilk.....maybe it's a 'race' thing.

no, it all still comes down to religion. the jewish didn't believe the same thing as their christian ruler/brethren. so they were 'different'-which to many means evil, and therefore must be destroyed. it isn't due to culture or values, or business acumen. the basic difference is their religion. they don't believe jesus is the actual son of god, and we can't be having that now, can we?

Mortimer · #18 09-28-2008, 06:28 PM

GODDAMMITY!!!!

I'm sick of you all.

They couldn't field a decent softball team...it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION!

timmgirvan · #19 09-28-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

no, it all still comes down to religion. the jewish didn't believe the same thing as their christian ruler/brethren. so they were 'different'-which to many means evil, and therefore must be destroyed. it isn't due to culture or values, or business acumen. the basic difference is their religion. they don't believe jesus is the actual son of god, and we can't be having that now, can we?

Well,Ziggy, we'll have to disagree then....we're both getting older,if you know what I mean.....Have a good week!