9/27 (OSA): Goodwood Day (6 Gr. I stakes)

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Hystericalady's dirt form just plain beats Zenyatta at 8.5 furlongs in a small field. Her synthetic form certainly doesn't - and synthetic tracks tend to negate tactical edges in slow paced races and smaller fields.

For people who aren't going to follow the Oak Tree meeting that closely - the result of that race could go quite a way in how people view the new pro-ride surface after opening week of Oak Tree.

[cakes44]

Here's hoping Wait a While wins for fun so she takes a ton of $$ at the BC.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Hystericalady's dirt form just plain beats Zenyatta at 8.5 furlongs in a small field. Her synthetic form certainly doesn't - and synthetic tracks tend to negate tactical edges in slow paced races and smaller fields.

For people who aren't going to follow the Oak Tree meeting that closely - the result of that race could go quite a way in how people view the new pro-ride surface after opening week of Oak Tree.

What did you think of yesterday's results?

I didn't buy the SA form yesterday so I have no idea how to evaulate it.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I don't think it played to any extreme yesterday.

[King Glorious]

I've been very upset with Zenyatta's connections in the past for skipping the Hollywood Gold Cup and the Pacific Classic for easier competition. This time I can't be too upset because I think the second best horse on the program is Hystericalady, although her form on the junk is not nearly as good as on real dirt.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I've been very upset with Zenyatta's connections in the past for skipping the Hollywood Gold Cup and the Pacific Classic for easier competition. This time I can't be too upset because I think the second best horse on the program is Hystericalady, although her form on the junk is not nearly as good as on real dirt.

Running against colts would have been great and all, but there's something to be said for females going off form after facing colts.

Bayakoa (after the Big Cap), Paseana (after the Pacific Classic), Sharp Cat (after the SA Derby), Eliza (after the SA Derby), and Surfside (after the SA Derby), all lost their next starts at short prices when back in against their own gender.

Maybe, with the division so deep right now, the connections didn't want to risk their tenuous hold on the title.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Running against colts would have been great and all, but there's something to be said for females going off form after facing colts.

Bayakoa (after the Big Cap), Paseana (after the Pacific Classic), Sharp Cat (after the SA Derby), Eliza (after the SA Derby), and Surfside (after the SA Derby), all lost their next starts at short prices when back in against their own gender.

Maybe, with the division so deep right now, the connections didn't want to risk their tenuous hold on the title.

Bayakoa also ran second in the San Diego Hcp. She went on to do big things though later on. Same with Paseana. Sharp Cat rebounded to have an outstanding year. I don't know that Eliza went off form as much as she just lost to a very good horse in Dispute (Bonnie Miss, Gazelle, Beldame at 3, Spinster at 4). Her going off form could just as easily be attributed to facing Dispute as it is to facing Personal Hope. Surfside later ran a very good second in the BC Distaff and beat older males in the Clark. For every one of these that you mentioned, there's a Winning Colors, a Ouija Board, a Miesque, a Six Perfections, a Serena's Song, a Personal Ensign.....the list goes on and on. I don't think there is any proof whatsoever that says they will go off form after facing males. I think it's more about what competition you face and how hard you may have to run that may influence your immediate form coming back. If racing against the boys means you have to run a harder race, yes, it can be understood that the next one out may be a little flat. But sometimes, you have to run harder to win races in your own division than you do to win races outside of it. If they were worried about her being knocked out by a tough race against boys and suffering in her next start against her own sex, they could have tried it in June and had plenty of time to recover and show her best against the girls later, as each of your examples did.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Bayakoa also ran second in the San Diego Hcp. She went on to do big things though later on. Same with Paseana. Sharp Cat rebounded to have an outstanding year. I don't know that Eliza went off form as much as she just lost to a very good horse in Dispute (Bonnie Miss, Gazelle, Beldame at 3, Spinster at 4). Her going off form could just as easily be attributed to facing Dispute as it is to facing Personal Hope. Surfside later ran a very good second in the BC Distaff and beat older males in the Clark. For every one of these that you mentioned, there's a Winning Colors, a Ouija Board, a Miesque, a Six Perfections, a Serena's Song, a Personal Ensign.....the list goes on and on. I don't think there is any proof whatsoever that says they will go off form after facing males. I think it's more about what competition you face and how hard you may have to run that may influence your immediate form coming back. If racing against the boys means you have to run a harder race, yes, it can be understood that the next one out may be a little flat. But sometimes, you have to run harder to win races in your own division than you do to win races outside of it. If they were worried about her being knocked out by a tough race against boys and suffering in her next start against her own sex, they could have tried it in June and had plenty of time to recover and show her best against the girls later, as each of your examples did.

Well, just to be fair, 3 of the horses you mentioned were Europeans (yes, its a big difference), one was one of only 3 fillies to win the Derby, and the other was the only horse to retire unbeaten in major competition in over 90 years.

Personally, had the BC not been in CA, the only gripe I'd have is that Zenyatta didn't run at either Saratoga or Belmont, the way Azeri didn't and the way Ribboletta did. Your suggestion she should have run in the Hollywood Gold Cup is a bit outlandish, seeing how that race is 10f and at that point she had yet to run further than 8.5f. The Pacific Classic would have been fine, I suppose, if a little late in the season, but we all know what John Shireffs thinks about the Polytrack there. He wouldn't even start Tiago on it last year.