Zarkava

[blackthroatedwind]

She rocks. I can't wait to see her in the Arc.

[the_fat_man]

When you compare the orderly (tight and compact) pack in that race to what typically happens in a turf race in the U.S., where jockeys like Johnny V and Prado are consistently needlessly wide WITHOUT COVER, you get a sense of how clueless (or just plain dumbasses) American riders are when it comes to drafting.

Anyone who has cycled, and has experienced riding at the tail of a large group, can appreciate the garden trip this filly got in that race. And, while they repeatedly focused on her bad start in the video, it wasn't anything to get concerned about.

This is what racing should be like: sit a trip and sprint to the wire.

[PSH]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

When you compare the orderly (tight and compact) pack in that race to what typically happens in a turf race in the U.S., where jockeys like Johnny V and Prado are consistently needlessly wide WITHOUT COVER, you get a sense of how clueless (or just plain dumbasses) American riders are when it comes to drafting.

Anyone who has cycled, and has experienced riding at the tail of a large group, can appreciate the garden trip this filly got in that race. And, while they repeatedly focused on her bad start in the video, it wasn't anything to get concerned about.

This is what racing should be like: sit a trip and sprint to the wire.

Agree with the majority of what you have to say....
Just curious, if you took over a turf horse who just received another "bad ride" from a jockey who would be the 2-4 riders on the turf that you would potentially put on your horse???

[turf fan]

She only ran the last 200 meters! Exciting effort. She'll be tough in the Arc.
I doubt she makes it to the BC with a big effort in the Arc.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by PSH

if you took over a turf horse who just received another "bad ride" from a jockey who would be the 2-4 riders on the turf that you would potentially put on your horse???

Right now, in NY,

Garcia
then Maragh -- the master of the inside, suckup, trip.

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

When you compare the orderly (tight and compact) pack in that race to what typically happens in a turf race in the U.S., where jockeys like Johnny V and Prado are consistently needlessly wide WITHOUT COVER, you get a sense of how clueless (or just plain dumbasses) American riders are when it comes to drafting.

Anyone who has cycled, and has experienced riding at the tail of a large group, can appreciate the garden trip this filly got in that race. And, while they repeatedly focused on her bad start in the video, it wasn't anything to get concerned about.

This is what racing should be like: sit a trip and sprint to the wire.

Horses are not bikes.
Some like to be covered up, some cant stand
it. And for God sake they are running. Again what
happens on a bike when you stop pedaling? What
happens when you stop running?

You guys who know horses let this guy get away
with this bogus analogy... unfrikkn believable.
Sit a trip. Sit a trip. Guess what happens when
when a horse tries to steal a race. Honestly.
Has the fatman actually ever run in a race on
a track. The comparison of human running would be much
better than a human riding a godforsaken bike.

Was a good race to watch.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Horses are not bikes.
Some like to be covered up, some cant stand
it. And for God sake they are running. Again what
happens on a bike when you stop pedaling? What
happens when you stop running?

You guys who know horses let this guy get away
with this bogus analogy... unfrikkn believable.
Sit a trip. Sit a trip. Guess what happens when
when a horse tries to steal a race. Honestly.
Has the fatman actually ever run in a race on
a track. The comparison of human running would be much
better than a human riding a godforsaken bike.

Was a good race to watch.

Getting cover in a turf race is usually the best thing for a horse. You rarely see a turfer "steal" races on a regular basis, and if they do they are the exception (Sunline)

[_ed_]

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

Sunline

But yeah, hugely impressive win by Zarkava. What a horse.

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

Getting cover in a turf race is usually the best thing for a horse. You rarely see a turfer "steal" races on a regular basis, and if they do they are the exception (Sunline)

In these turf races, your strategy depends on the competition.
If a jock finds out he is on a grinder based on his competition,
he better ride the horse to do what fits that race.

A jock cannot sit back with a bunch of horses that have great kicks
and just let them outkick you because of superior closing speed. These sitters
must be pushed. It happens all the time in running. (without bikes)

Anytime you run against a horse with superior closing speed, the only way
to take the starch out of the kick is to push them throughout. And if they dont push, you got to try to pull a grinding steal. Put enough distance so they cant catch you. If they are just too damn good, then tough luck. But to sit back relaxing with horses that have big kicks when you dont... waiting to lose gives you no chance.

And the fact that races do on occasion get stolen by frontrunners keeps
the talented closers honest. Fatman refers to biking, I say look at this year's
womans marathon. The winner put superior runners away because they thought she would come back to the pack. They took it too easy. She was there to push. And no one challenged. She was not the best runner.

Getting covered up also means a horse might have to run at a pace that is not most efficient given that horses particular stride. It is not a good thing at all in some cases. It can be stressful. Its not like coasting on a bike, you still have to run. And having to change pace because a horse in front of you hits a bit of trouble can be debilitating by the end of the race.

My take from running, not biking.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by pgardn

In these turf races, your strategy depends on the competition.
If a jock finds out he is on a grinder based on his competition,
he better ride the horse to do what fits that race.

A jock cannot sit back with a bunch of horses that have great kicks
and just let them outkick you because of superior closing speed. These sitters
must be pushed. It happens all the time in running. (without bikes)

Anytime you run against a horse with superior closing speed, the only way
to take the starch out of the kick is to push them throughout. And if they dont push, you got to try to pull a grinding steal. Put enough distance so they cant catch you. If they are just too damn good, then tough luck. But to sit back relaxing with horses that have big kicks when you dont... waiting to lose gives you no chance.

And the fact that races do on occasion get stolen by frontrunners keeps
the talented closers honest. Fatman refers to biking, I say look at this year's
womans marathon. The winner put superior runners away because they thought she would come back to the pack. They took it too easy. She was there to push. And no one challenged. She was not the best runner.

Getting covered up also means a horse might have to run at a pace that is not most efficient given that horses particular stride. It is not a good thing at all in some cases. It can be stressful. Its not like coasting on a bike, you still have to run. And having to change pace because a horse in front of you hits a bit of trouble can be debilitating by the end of the race.

My take from running, not biking.

Your take from running has nothing to do with a horse race. Unless you are in a paceless situation or have a definite free running horse, you want a horse to get cover and outsprint the rest when the hole opens. If there is no hole, you're ****ed.

This is regarding truly run turf races, not the weird type we run over here.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

This is regarding truly run turf races, not the weird type we run over here.

These contrary-to-physics races are the result of DIRT racing (the kickback) and the many bush and biased tracks on which it's practiced. Gunning for the lead, moving prematurely, going without cover, having an advantage as a frontrunner, are all tactics that spell CERTAIN DOOM in any other sport (at a reasonably high speed). Try any of these at your local velodrome and see how quickly you're puking up your breakfast. Here, they're the norm.

As I've mentioned countless times before: the way these jock ride these races borders on ABUSE of the horses. Why would they care, however, as it doesn't cost them any pain; not like they in a bike race and they make a premature break and are made to pay for it.

Compounding matters is that most trainers/owners are clueless to it as well and thus the status quo is guaranteed to have a long life.

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

Your take from running has nothing to do with a horse race.

But biking does?
Excellent.

[Bigsmc]

Because I am lazy and haven't watched her other races, does she always spot the field double digit lengths by walking out of the gate or was today an anomoly?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Because I am lazy and haven't watched her other races, does she always spot the field double digit lengths by walking out of the gate or was today an anomoly?

I've never seen her get left that badly. It's easy to watch her other races.

Prix de Diane 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EVoV...eature=related

[PSH]

That was quite impressive.
What a turn of foot the last 1/8 mile....
Sort of reminds me of one of my favorites Pebbles when she won the Breeders Cup turf race at dreary Aqueduct back in the mid 80's coming from way back...

[CSC]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

She rocks. I can't wait to see her in the Arc.

She`s a heck of a filly, you have to wonder if that race will take something out of her being it is a prep for the Arc, thanks for the heads up.

One horse to keep an eye on is Ideal World, finished second in the key arc prep The Prix Niel. He`s probably more known as a son of Banks Hill, but perhaps more important he`s trained by Andre Fabre.

[CSC]

Is anyone else here following the arc? How about the other undefeated 3 yr old Vision D'Etat, apparently he was only 85% cranked up today currently 8-1 on ladbrokes. His regular rider is Arlington million winning Jockey Mendizabal.

[Linny]

She was off since June and this was her first time at 12f. She's been held as the favorite for the Arc since the spring. She went from 3/1 to 2/1 with her win today. The connections figured her to be an "Arc filly" from the day she won the G1 Boussac at 2.
The turf was softer than usual for the race today and she handled it well. The Arc is often run over a bog.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Linny

She was off since June and this was her first time at 12f. She's been held as the favorite for the Arc since the spring. She went from 3/1 to 2/1 with her win today. The connections figured her to be an "Arc filly" from the day she won the G1 Boussac at 2.
The turf was softer than usual for the race today and she handled it well. The Arc is often run over a bog.

I think the last filly to win the arc was Urban Sea but don't quote me on that, this is from handicapping the race last year I remember reading, it would be a tall feat for a 3 yr old but she looks a cut above the rest that have tried. I think Pride was the last filly to really have a shot and she was just short of accomplishing the feat. Meisho Samson is an interesting addition though he is no Deep impact by any means, I'm curious if Fabre will enter Ideal World, if he does you know he's live. I really like 3 yr old colts in this race that exit the Prix Niel, the weight allowance and the improving form, right now I'm extremely interested in Vision D'Etat unless Fabre enters Ideal World.