russia vs georgia

[Cannon Shell]

If you think that this has anything to do with ethnic cleansing or believe georgia has done something that encouraged the russians to invade you really dont understand that part of the world or dont read the news very well. Putin IS putting the old USSR back together. He has already turned the govt into a puppet govt, has invited western oil investment and research and then seized the russian companies that worked with them, putting the owners in jail and kicking the western companies out. They are spending like crazy on revamping their military and Russia has lots of money not to mention a semi-alliance with Iran. They have been rattling the cages of Georgia over the pipelines for 2 years now. Control over Georgia gives them control over the lifeblood of much of eastern europes energy supplies. They dont have to occupy the entire country to be able to exert extreme pressure. The Russians have already put the nuclear card on the table in regards to Poland installing the US missle defense system. THEY HAVE SAID PUBICALLY THAT THEY WILL USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON ANOTHER COUNTRY IF IT DOESNT DO WHAT THEY DESIRE!!! So if you believe that the Georgians are bad people or that the Russians are the good guys or somehow justified in this fight, you just go ahead and believe that.


http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article...cle_id=2372768


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-Georgia.html

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you think that this has anything to do with ethnic cleansing or believe georgia has done something that encouraged the russians to invade you really dont understand that part of the world or dont read the news very well. Putin IS putting the old USSR back together. He has already turned the govt into a puppet govt, has invited western oil investment and research and then seized the russian companies that worked with them, putting the owners in jail and kicking the western companies out. They are spending like crazy on revamping their military and Russia has lots of money not to mention a semi-alliance with Iran. They have been rattling the cages of Georgia over the pipelines for 2 years now. Control over Georgia gives them control over the lifeblood of much of eastern europes energy supplies. They dont have to occupy the entire country to be able to exert extreme pressure. The Russians have already put the nuclear card on the table in regards to Poland installing the US missle defense system. THEY HAVE SAID PUBICALLY THAT THEY WILL USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON ANOTHER COUNTRY IF IT DOESNT DO WHAT THEY DESIRE!!! So if you believe that the Georgians are bad people or that the Russians are the good guys or somehow justified in this fight, you just go ahead and believe that.


http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article...cle_id=2372768

i don't think either georgians or russians are unusually good or bad.

i think georgians have been poorly served by their leadership. i'm not sure how georgia taking the bait and sending troops into s ossentia (a region where russian troops were serving as peacekeepers under an internationally recognized mandate) isn't "encouraging the russians to invade you".

we promised gorbachev we wouldn't expand nato into eastern europe in exchange for soviet acquiescence to german reunification. after that we invite ukraine and georgia to apply.

i don't know why anyone is shocked the russians are pissed and swinging a big dick in everyone's face.

what's shocking was the lack of any sense of realpolitik in tblisi.

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i don't know why anyone is shocked the russians are pissed and swinging a big dick in everyone's face.

I am shocked at the way they are going about it.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I am shocked at the way they are going about it.

you don't think it could be worse?

they didn't occupy the capital when little stopped them.

there are no legitimate reports of any genocide on either side. they sent in their better, more experienced troops and not the conscripts.

they wanted to humiliate the georgians, not destroy them.

i look at this as a carefully planned and measured response.

as opposed to say...iraq.

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

you don't think it could be worse?

You can swing a dick without further ruin to the economy.

I am surprised Putin did not learn some lessons about running
a country. This is a country in very bad shape. They have
nothing but oil to stand on. They cant feed their own people with their own food, their infrastructure mess has accelerated. Democracy was not working
well for them. But now... I guess they have their pride back and a much crappier military. Sort of scary.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

You can swing a dick without further ruin to the economy.

I am surprised Putin did not learn some lessons about running
a country. This is a country in very bad shape. They have
nothing but oil to stand on. They cant feed their own people with their own food, their infrastructure mess has accelerated. Democracy was not working
well for them. But now... I guess they have their pride back and a much crappier military. Sort of scary.

Their economy will be doing really well once they completely control the supply of gas and oil to Europe and Asia

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Their economy will be doing really well once they completely control the supply of gas and oil to Europe and Asia

If they wish to become a the world's version of Saudi Arabia.
Import everything. Export one thing.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Putin IS putting the old USSR back together.
http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article...cle_id=2372768


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-Georgia.html

Putin fooled GW also.

All that time playing "the man he could do business with" and
Putin is probably just seething having to play GW without any
brute force recourse.

Throwing the Western Oil companies out is pure stupidity.
Venezuela already failed with this trick. Russia's oil production will
now deteriorate slowly but surely.

This is really a confusing situation. Unless Putin is trying to slash
and burn his own country to gain some sort of despotic control.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Putin fooled GW also.

All that time playing "the man he could do business with" and
Putin is probably just seething having to play GW without any
brute force recourse.

Throwing the Western Oil companies out is pure stupidity.
Venezuela already failed with this trick. Russia's oil production will
now deteriorate slowly but surely.

This is really a confusing situation. Unless Putin is trying to slash
and burn his own country to gain some sort of despotic control.

All GW was doing was giving the guy public respect which leaders tend to do. That means nothing except to the looney talk radio guys.

Putin is KGB dont forget. He invited the westerners in to steal their technology and let them do the dirty work in drastically updating the Russian gas and oil production. It costs billions to locate and extract oil and gas and after the systems were set up he threw the west out and took over the Russian companies and threw their execs in jail. He got exactly what he needed. They have plenty of money now and with the US seemingly reeling economically and with its military stretched he is striking while he has the advantage. Anything that Georgia did or didnt do is semantics, a good excuse to flex muscles and bait the West (us). The Russian general's quotes were released by the Russian controlled papers which tells you that Putin wanted it said in another muscle flexing move. The chances that they use nukes against poland are remote but the message is clear. Dont fck with us, we are going to make some moves that will piss everybody off but we have nukes and will make things ugly unless you back down.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

All GW was doing was giving the guy public respect which leaders tend to do.

I dont believe this was all. I looked into his eyes????
Bush looked into his eyes and saw the mans soul? There is
no need for this extreme language. He misjudged yet another
person. GW has been absolutely horrendous at picking people
to trust.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I dont believe this was all. I looked into his eyes????
Bush looked into his eyes and saw the mans soul? There is
no need for this extreme language. He misjudged yet another
person. GW has been absolutely horrendous at picking people
to trust.

I dont think GW picked Putin, he played the hand he was dealt. Honestly didnt you ever take political science? Almost everything top pols say in public are scripted, usually by a strgetist. What was he going to say? I really dont trust this dude? He has nukes but lets insult him? it is all just noise, not real words.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont think GW picked Putin, he played the hand he was dealt. Honestly didnt you ever take political science? Almost everything top pols say in public are scripted, usually by a strgetist. What was he going to say? I really dont trust this dude? He has nukes but lets insult him? it is all just noise, not real words.

you don't really think "i looked into his eyes and got a sense of his soul" was scripted, do you?

that was pure unleashed gw.

things that sound awkward and stupid aren't what the expert's suggest.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont think GW picked Putin, he played the hand he was dealt. Honestly didnt you ever take political science? Almost everything top pols say in public are scripted, usually by a strgetist. What was he going to say? I really dont trust this dude? He has nukes but lets insult him? it is all just noise, not real words.

No he did not.

Well then GW picked people to help him speak... no more needs
to be said on this. Bad.

He did not need to look into his soul to evaluate him
and let the world know.

[Cannon Shell]

What difference does it make what GW said about Putin 6 or 7 years ago? What exactly is he supposed to say when th guy is standing right there and just opened his country to western investment? "Hey the dude is KGB, he is going to screw us eventually so lets invade now?"

The fact is that Putin is dangerous and there is nothing that GW or anybody else can do to change this or change the fact that the Russians have been pissed off for a long time and want to regain their position of power? We didnt put him in place, Russia isnt some third world country that others can control. They are a nuclear power with a lot of money, natural resources, bombs, soldiers and ties with bad guys that want to hurt us. Hell we may wind up allies with China before this whole thing is over. That is not exactly a regime without blood on their hnds.