House Subcommittee Hearings

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If the other major sports in society can do it, why can't racing?

Baseball, basketball, football... they're very similar in that each individual team is its own business, at its core, competing against other businesses in the same market.

The Mets want to out-draw the Yankees, they want to earn more money, they want a better bottom line. Yet under the umbrella for the "Good of the Game" they hold hands with the Yankees when it comes to new steroid testing procedures and other rules/laws.

In flabbergasts me that racing cannot do the same.

Travis.. Any idea of financials involved in this? Any idea? The logistics?

How many professional baseball players are there? Football players? Etc.. How many horses? Located where? And to be tested for how many THOUSANDS of medications?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Travis.. Any idea of financials involved in this? Any idea? The logistics?

How many professional baseball players are there? Football players? Etc.. How many horses? Located where? And to be tested for how many THOUSANDS of medications?

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

The industry is going no where.

Today was just a bunch of old people that have nothing better to do.

[Travis Stone]

I guess what I'm saying is people are really speaking-up about these issues now. But at the end of the day, what will come of it? Who takes the reins? Clearly our sport and industry has shown a significant inability to do so, so now the government is looking at holding our hand. If the government gets involved, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I guess what I'm saying is people are really speaking-up about these issues now. But at the end of the day, what will come of it? Who takes the reins? Clearly our sport and industry has shown a significant inability to do so, so now the government is looking at holding our hand. If the government gets involved, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Personally I believe that most of what most people in the public really know about the issues is laughable. What horseracing really has failed at is PR. Most people within the industry seem not to be able to think for themselves, so it is not just the public. What many are forgetting is that there is more to racing than the Triple crown, Saratoga, Del Mar and the breeders Cup. there are hundreds of smaller track races every day. How are those tracks supposed to enact the same testing that will be done at Belmont? It is like saying that your single a minor league baseball franchise will be held to the same standards as the major league franchise. Who is going to pay for all of this?

[Travis Stone]

All of these posts in this thread by myself are talking well beyond just steroid testing. And you hit the nail on the head in this one, which what I'm saying.

PR is a foreign concept to horse racing. We realized that the hard way after the Derby when we, meaning every racetrack from LAD to Backyard Downs in South Dakota, was caught with our pants down. But reforms were made, tactics were organized, and we were more prepared shortly thereafter. Are we 100% now? Certainly not, but its a start.

It's like horse racing is a giant ship on the open seas with a multitude or organizations trying to control the udder. Eventually, someone has to come forward and mitigate the chaos. The chaos being everything from surfaces, to jockey weight, to signal disputes to steroids.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Personally I believe that most of what most people in the public really know about the issues is laughable. What horseracing really has failed at is PR. Most people within the industry seem not to be able to think for themselves, so it is not just the public. What many are forgetting is that there is more to racing than the Triple crown, Saratoga, Del Mar and the breeders Cup. there are hundreds of smaller track races every day. How are those tracks supposed to enact the same testing that will be done at Belmont? It is like saying that your single a minor league baseball franchise will be held to the same standards as the major league franchise. Who is going to pay for all of this?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

All of these posts in this thread by myself are talking well beyond just steroid testing. And you hit the nail on the head in this one, which what I'm saying.

PR is a foreign concept to horse racing. We realized that the hard way after the Derby when we, meaning every racetrack from LAD to Backyard Downs in South Dakota, was caught with our pants down. But reforms were made, tactics were organized, and we were more prepared shortly thereafter. Are we 100% now? Certainly not, but its a start.

It's like horse racing is a giant ship on the open seas with a multitude or organizations trying to control the udder. Eventually, someone has to come forward and mitigate the chaos. The chaos being everything from surfaces, to jockey weight, to signal disputes to steroids.

It simply is not that easy. First of all most of the issues have roots in money. secondly anything involving billion dollar industries will come with lawyers attached at the hip. Congress may have a lot of authority but many of the issues that our business has are ones of greed like just about every other business. You dont see Congress solving the gas price issue by passing a law saying that gas cant be sold for more than $2.00 a gallon do you? There is a limit to what they can and cant do. More importantly is the ability of the industry to adopt the regulations that they may enact. I have said a hundred times about this situation, who is going to pay for all of this and how do we know that the Federal board to regulate racing wont be filled in the same manner as the state racing commissions that have taken so much grief?

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

Well in that case...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

I love when you guys throw out that if we spend a billion then.....

Then what? Where is that money coming from? Trainers and owners and betters are getting hammered like the rest of the country. Do you guys who draw a salary from the business understand that one of the reasons that the sport is so screwed up from a financial side is because of sentiments like yours? When the takeouts were raised and handed over to state governments because there was so much money available. What are you going to do when LAD gets rid of racing because there are no horses left? Where is that billion going to come from? From the bettors? They can stand another takeout increase? from the owners? Like there arent enough owners getting out of the business now? Why do you think the Bob and Beverly Lewises of the world became sellers too? Because it costs so damn much to run a racing stable that even the really rich people needed to try to get some cash back. One of the problems in the sales business is that all the buyers have become sellers. This industry is not going to be saved by a federal racing commission that tests for steroids. It will be killed by people who will bleed it dry based upon the testimony of zealots and rumors and half truths.

[Jax Cajun]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I love when you guys throw out that if we spend a billion then.....

Then what? Where is that money coming from? Trainers and owners and betters are getting hammered like the rest of the country. Do you guys who draw a salary from the business understand that one of the reasons that the sport is so screwed up from a financial side is because of sentiments like yours? When the takeouts were raised and handed over to state governments because there was so much money available. What are you going to do when LAD gets rid of racing because there are no horses left? Where is that billion going to come from? From the bettors? They can stand another takeout increase? from the owners? Like there arent enough owners getting out of the business now? Why do you think the Bob and Beverly Lewises of the world became sellers too? Because it costs so damn much to run a racing stable that even the really rich people needed to try to get some cash back. One of the problems in the sales business is that all the buyers have become sellers. This industry is not going to be saved by a federal racing commission that tests for steroids. It will be killed by people who will bleed it dry based upon the testimony of zealots and rumors and half truths.

Well said. So this hearing today is just typical election year politics.

So states like Del, Ill, Penn, WA, etc... that ban steroids, do these states pay for the testing and do you feel like they are fair and accurate?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

Well said. So this hearing today is just typical election year politics.

So states like Del, Ill, Penn, WA, etc... that ban steroids, do these states pay for the testing and do you feel like they are fair and accurate?

They themselves arent sure about the accuracy since most have extended the grace periods where steroids are still allowable. The states pay for the testing and VA even has a program where they will test you before you run to make sure that you are clear.

[Jax Cajun]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They themselves arent sure about the accuracy since most have extended the grace periods where steroids are still allowable. The states pay for the testing and VA even has a program where they will test you before you run to make sure that you are clear.

Keep at it the state level and let them pay for it. It's in their best interest since they take such a large cut of the handle and the public wants it. After this discussion I don't think a centralized office, in terms of steroid testing, is feasible. Create one that promotes the sport but allow the states to regulate steroids.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

Are you even remotely aware of the work that is being done by a host of people throughout the industry on EVERY SINGLE TOPIC that was brought up today? Work that is being diminished and insulted by douchebags and buffoons like Randy Moss who don't know what they're talking about but are accepted as 'authoritative' because of some perceived knowledge gleened from 17 minutes of airtime on ESPN once a month?

Are you kidding me? This was a mockery today. No one who has been working tirelessly to change things in the game, and that have been making progress, were representated.. Their efforts were obfuscated by lies, misrepresentations and innuendo. I'm surprised that someone that makes their living in the game would perpetuate the crap that we just listened to for 4 hours... It's irresponsible to be unaware of what is actually being attempted and accomplished.

Sorry to be harsh about it but accepting the bullsh+t from the likes of Jess Jackson is outrageous.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Are you even remotely aware of the work that is being done by a host of people throughout the industry on EVERY SINGLE TOPIC that was brought up today? Work that is being diminished and insulted by douchebags and buffoons like Randy Moss who don't know what they're talking about but are accepted as 'authoritative' because of some perceived knowledge gleened from 17 minutes of airtime on ESPN once a month?

Are you kidding me? This was a mockery today. No one who has been working tirelessly to change things in the game, and that have been making progress, were representated.. Their efforts were obfuscated by lies, misrepresentations and innuendo. I'm surprised that someone that makes their living in the game would perpetuate the crap that we just listened to for 4 hours... It's irresponsible to be unaware of what is actually being attempted and accomplished.

Sorry to be harsh about it but accepting the bullsh+t from the likes of Jess Jackson is outrageous.

I'm completely aware of the measurements being taken, of the new committees and groups formed. My golf partner is one a few of those committees. I know.

And no, I don't think today's hearings were the end-all, be-all, nor the answer. But its funny how someone outside our industry finally calls us out, and suddenly, we have this giant defensive stance. It's like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I'm completely aware of the measurements being taken, of the new committees and groups formed. My golf partner is one a few of those committees. I know.

And no, I don't think today's hearings were the end-all, be-all, nor the answer. But its funny how someone outside our industry finally calls us out, and suddenly, we have this giant defensive stance. It's like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

Actually it's not. It's vocal response to say what IS BEING DONE... I'm on the air 15 hours a week doing it. My head is hardly in the sand.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Actually it's not. It's vocal response to say what IS BEING DONE... I'm on the air 15 hours a week doing it. My head is hardly in the sand.

I think thats where the faith of general population is softening. We read stories about committees and approaches and ideas and thoughts, yet it never seems to really materialize. You and I can say to our friends, "There is a new committee looking into performance enhancing drugs which should help improve the status quo" all we want, but at the end of the day, this committee really has no jurisdiction. So they can only recommend, and before you know, we have a pile of recommendations, but no way to enforce. So what needs to happen for the sport to start enforcing? That's where I am coming from.

I wasn't calling you on ostrich... for the record!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I think thats where the faith of general population is softening. We read stories about committees and approaches and ideas and thoughts, yet it never seems to really materialize. You and I can say to our friends, "There is a new committee looking into performance enhancing drugs which should help improve the status quo" all we want, but at the end of the day, this committee really has no jurisdiction. So they can only recommend, and before you know, we have a pile of recommendations, but no way to enforce. So what needs to happen for the sport to start enforcing? That's where I am coming from.

I wasn't calling you on ostrich... for the record!

Let me give you an analogy to what may possibly occur.

A department store is doing steady business. They have the ups and downs like other businesses but they are established and have a loyal customer base. But they have this little shoplifting problem that is biting off 5% of its profits. A local tv station does a story on the shoplifting issue and people all of a sudden have a lack of confidence in the stores security and think they may be in danger. Even though no one was threatened and shoplifters rarely are violent offenders, the store decides it needs to beef up its security forces and use all the modern devices even metal detectors to keep out guns, even though guns have been an issue. They say it is to restore the publics confidence in us. so they put in all these costly devices and cameras. Then the bill come for the equipment. Holy crap they store says. This is expensive. We have to raise our prices to pay for all this stuff, even after finding some of it is overkill. So they raise their prices 20% to pay for the equipment. The end results are decidedly poor. The good news is that shoplifting is way down from the previous levels and the customers feel safer. The bad news is that sales are off 40% because there are a whole lot fewer customers because they have priced themselves out of the market.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I'm completely aware of the measurements being taken, of the new committees and groups formed. My golf partner is one a few of those committees. I know.

And no, I don't think today's hearings were the end-all, be-all, nor the answer. But its funny how someone outside our industry finally calls us out, and suddenly, we have this giant defensive stance. It's like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

To the contrary I believe that the industry has not taken a defensive enough stance. All I saw today were people casting stones at the industry. And I hate to tell you that the Feds will take today as the end all, be all as far as their involvement. That is why the list of 'guests' was so slanted. If you knew nothing about horseracing before this hearing you will have a really dim and one sided view afterwards. Let us not forget that many if not most of our experts arent that knwledgeable about the entire issue outside of their own fifedom's so to expect decided non-experts like congress decide our fate is not an appealing thought. Think NYCOTB on a grand scale.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

To the contrary I believe that the industry has not taken a defensive enough stance. All I saw today were people casting stones at the industry. And I hate to tell you that the Feds will take today as the end all, be all as far as their involvement. That is why the list of 'guests' was so slanted. If you knew nothing about horseracing before this hearing you will have a really dim and one sided view afterwards. Let us not forget that many if not most of our experts arent that knwledgeable about the entire issue outside of their own fifedom's so to expect decided non-experts like congress decide our fate is not an appealing thought. Think NYCOTB on a grand scale.

What are exactly ARE the compelling counter-arguments to today's "one-sided" arguments?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

What are exactly ARE the compelling counter-arguments to today's "one-sided" arguments?

That racing is hardly doing nothing in many cases. That some of the issues brought up like the ones involving the sales have already been dealt with through regulatory changes and state laws. That there needs to be a whole lot more clarification than to simply say "drugs". That there are customers that wont appreciate paying more for the product despite the pleas of Moss, Van Berg, and Jackson. That this is a far more complex issue because many of the "drugs" that are being talked about are useful medications that would not be an issue in a human sport yet are in ours. That this whole endeavor would cost a tremendous amount of money that the industry simply doesnt have? That there is no reason for anyone to believe that the Federal government will be any more effective in its oversight than the states currently are? That the great majority of people in the business are against horse slaughter yet see the issues that arise because of the ban of it.