Dedumbeaux's Ride

Originally Posted by Danzig

desormeaux admitted that the horse wanted to keep going, that there was nothing wrong with him. can he get in trouble for not riding to the wire? i remember a jock a few years ago got a lengthy suspension because he didn't try all the way to the finish.

as for the horse yesterday-i think it was a combination of factors that got big brown beat. the foot, the heat possibly, the rail, rank early and being taken back-i think kent took him out of his game there, expecting da tara to fold like a cheap tent.
everyone had said that with his speed early, no front runner could stay with him-and we know what happened in the fla derby, no one could catch hiim late...it's like kent forced brown to run with the horses, and that's exactly what big brown wanted to do the rest of the race.

I feel sorry for the horse. He really did want to go on.
But he was just spinning his wheels, he had nothing
for whatever reason. I still like the horse. He is game.
Look like he had every intention of continuing.

I think the foot probably concerned Kent D. more than
anything. Driving a dead horse forward... I dont fault
him for stopping Brown. Consequences if the hoof went
bad... deep doo doo.

The first part of the race was really tough. DaTara shot
out, Brown ran up his butt, then Coa had a good enough
start to pin him for a short time.
He went outside of Coa and Coa took him way out.

Coa did nothing illegal but that guy is ruthless.

Oops I see Mr. Travis has posted somewhat the same
thing. My apologies.

[ArlJim78]

if nothing was wrong with Big Brown, why not just wrap him up and gallop to the wire? it does seem ridiculous to pull him up like he was injured.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

it does seem ridiculous to pull him up like he was injured.

I think you may have answered your own question correctly earlier in this thread.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Kent stopped on him I think just to not have the indignity of getting passed by the maiden while in a drive.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

if nothing was wrong with Big Brown, why not just wrap him up and gallop to the wire? it does seem ridiculous to pull him up like he was injured.

why not be extra cautious with your 50 million dollar horse?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

why not be extra cautious with your 50 million dollar horse?

what exactly is risky about galloping a horse that is fine? i said that i can see wrapping him up, but pulling him up is another thing.

so should all $50 million horses be allowed to just pull up whenever they want, while all the other grunts have to battle it out?

he did it not because of a concern for the horse but because of the shame it would have caused to cross the wire 30 lengths behind with a 1-5 shot supposed super horse.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what exactly is risky about galloping a horse that is fine? i said that i can see wrapping him up, but pulling him up is another thing.

so should all $50 million horses be allowed to just pull up whenever they want, while all the other grunts have to battle it out?

he did it not because of a concern for the horse but because of the shame it would have caused to cross the wire 30 lengths behind with a 1-5 shot supposed super horse.

How do you know what was going on in kent Desormeaux's brain ? Thats not what he said in the interview.

Something wasnt right and he didnt know what it was. Better to pull him up then to gallop him out if he wasnt sure.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

How do you know what was going on in kent Desormeaux's brain ? Thats not what he said in the interview.

Something wasnt right and he didnt know what it was. Better to pull him up then to gallop him out if he wasnt sure.

i thought he said the horse wanted to keep going? i think it was kent who got cold feet and felt off, not the horse. i bet kd wanted to puke.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

How do you know what was going on in kent Desormeaux's brain ? Thats not what he said in the interview.

Something wasnt right and he didnt know what it was. Better to pull him up then to gallop him out if he wasnt sure.

i guess I'm naive enough to hope that KD's decision was based on the horses' health. If he did it merely to not suffer the indignity of finishing last,then he has more probems than I can deal with. He's been in and out his whole career, so what you see is what you get!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

i guess I'm naive enough to hope that KD's decision was based on the horses' health. If he did it merely to not suffer the indignity of finishing last,then he has more probems than I can deal with. He's been in and out his whole career, so what you see is what you get!

show me another instance where he or any other rider pulls up their horse in the stretch and jumps off at the wire, not because there was any indication of anything wrong, merely because there was no response, then i'll believe it was for the horses best interest. if this is the way to go then it should happen about once per race.

[stareagle]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what exactly is risky about galloping a horse that is fine? i said that i can see wrapping him up, but pulling him up is another thing.

Desormeaux didn't think the horse was fine, so he played it carefully. That was the absolute correct thing to do, unless you expect him to give him a full vet exam during the race.

Besides, it isn't like KD eased him while he was running hard for the win. Watch the replay - he doesn't do it until horses are already streaming by him.

[ELA]

The jock had nothing to do with the outcome -- period. Too many people bring far too much baggage to the table and one of the byproducts is to blame the jock. Far too convenient and common. It's kind of like "having to find an excuse" so to speak. The other side of the coin is people who have no idea what they are talking about. Being a good handicapper doesn't mean one knows everything about horses, jocks, etc. and all the "other" aspects of the game. People tend to collapse those aspects of the game as well.

As far as pulling him up -- as I've often said, it's really easy to make decisions from the grandstand or from behind a keyboard. I think people are reading far too much into this. It's not that complicated and there isn't a conspiracy behind it. He did it to protect the horse. He did it because he wanted to save face. He did because . . . because because because. If it makes you feel better, go for it.

As opposed to pulling him up, if he would have ridden the horse out -- there would be plenty of people who would be critisizing that move as well. Funny thing -- I am sure a few of them would be the same people who are critisizing the fact that he pulled him up.

Eric

[blackthroatedwind]

Coa is being criticized her for herding Big Brown on the backstretch? Funny stuff. I guess the irony of this is being missed by most. Desormeaux has been herding and intimidating other riders with regularity. Apparently Coa shouldn't return the favor?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Coa is being criticized her for herding Big Brown on the backstretch? Funny stuff. I guess the irony of this is being missed by most. Desormeaux has been herding and intimidating other riders with regularity. Apparently Coa shouldn't return the favor?

No doubt Coa is a dirty rider but its all part of the game. Big Brown was the favorite and in order to win you have to beat the favorite. Race riding is part of it. I just hope that Big Brown's connections don't cry about it the way Smarty's connections did.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

No doubt Coa is a dirty rider but its all part of the game. Big Brown was the favorite and in order to win you have to beat the favorite. Race riding is part of it. I just hope that Big Brown's connections don't cry about it the way Smarty's connections did.

What exactly is a " dirty rider? "

People comment on fragile horses these days but the animals aren't the only ones that are more genteel than the old days. If Coa is " dirty " then what about one of the greatest riders of all time, Angel Cordero?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What exactly is a " dirty rider? "

People comment on fragile horses these days but the animals aren't the only ones that are more genteel than the old days. If Coa is " dirty " then what about one of the greatest riders of all time, Angel Cordero?

You know what a dirty rider is and Cordero certainly fit the descrption.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You know what a dirty rider is and Cordero certainly fit the descrption.

I just don't like the word, as it connotes something that I am not sure is true, at least in this sense, as a rider's job is to win. If what you do to win is within the rules, how can that be considered " dirty " riding, and wouldn't it be more fair to say that the rules need to be changed?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like some tactics riders use, but I don't necessarily fault them if they are doing what they can to help their mounts win. I fault riders more for the opposite.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

No doubt Coa is a dirty rider but its all part of the game. Big Brown was the favorite and in order to win you have to beat the favorite. Race riding is part of it. I just hope that Big Brown's connections don't cry about it the way Smarty's connections did.

IF it is all apart of the game then we might as well go back to the fairs where riders used to beat and whip fellow riders during races. That isn't apart of the game. There is a certain amount of decorum that must be expected. Without it you have chaos. And please, Smarty's connections had good reason. Eddington notably was taken totally out of his game just to push and hound Smarty. Smarty finishes a tough beaten second. Eddington and some others were way back near last. Race Riding is apart of it and I don't have a problem with that. But Coa and Kenny D both put fellow jocks in jeopardy at times without any consequence. And you race ride in an effort to get an advantage for YOUR OWN HORSE. Not just to try and get someone else beaten even if it means you totally compromise your horses chances.

[the_fat_man]

I must be missing the point, with a horse that was eased.

You know what we should be discussing when it comes to trips/rides? How about:

1) Cornelio blocking Kent the length of the stretch on Friday, with the other half of the Mott entry. I've been betting over 30 years and I've seen a lot of stupid **** but a jock going out of his way to shut off a winning move by his entry mate is about as DUMBASS as it gets. YET, no comments on this forum.

2) How about Edgar going 4 wide on the 1st turn with Pays to Dream? I mean, the horse is coming off the pace anyway so why not sit on the rail, like the winner, or the 2 path, like the runner up? Run an extra 30-45 feet or so, lose by 1/2 length and get vanned off. Nice at 11:1 ............

This kind of stuff is interesting when it comes to trips. A horse that doesn't fire, for whatever reason, is not.

Let's try to take it up a notch.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I must be missing the point, with a horse that was eased.

You know what we should be discussing when it comes to trips/rides? How about:

1) Cornelio blocking Kent the length of the stretch on Friday, with the other half of the Mott entry. I've been betting over 30 years and I've seen a lot of stupid **** but a jock going out of his way to shut off a winning move by his entry mate is about as DUMBASS as it gets. YET, no comments on this forum.

2) How about Edgar going 4 wide on the 1st turn with Pays to Dream? I mean, the horse is coming off the pace anyway so why not sit on the rail, like the winner, or the 2 path, like the runner up? Run an extra 30-45 feet or so, lose by 1/2 length and get vanned off. Nice at 11:1 ............

This kind of stuff is interesting when it comes to trips. A horse that doesn't fire, for whatever reason, is not.

Let's try to take it up a notch.

Agreed on all counts. Well said.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I think analyzing the ride is much ado about nothing.

You knew going into the race the other jocks would have a bullseye on BB's back.

You knew going in that Da Tara was going to make the lead - and KJD isn't stupid enough to hook a 40/1 longshot with a horse that has rated kindly and unleashed huge turn moves in both of the first two legs of the triple crown.

You knew going in that the ruthless Eibar Coa was riding Tale Of Ekati - who has tactical speed, was drawn outside of BB, and was obviously going to race ride BB.

In hindsight - the best strategy would have been a seemingly incredibly insane strategy going into the race. It would be for Kent to pull a page from the Ramon Dominguez playbook and stay glued to the rail. The rail was good enough - see Forefathers performance - and as it turned out ... Da Tara was clearly more horse than Tale of Ekati, which means Big Brown would have got out of the box if he had more horse than ToE.

However, Big Brown had no horse so all this doesn't matter.