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  #1  
Old 05-31-2008, 08:55 PM
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Kasept Kasept is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonegossard
However racing Smooth Air in a Grade I up at Saratoga is beyond foolish. Real horses like Harlem Rocker and Assmussen's 3 yr old J Be K would torch Smooth Air.
Pete,

Why would Harlem Rocker be in the King's Bishop? And J Be K? He has one race that stands out as anything impactful. You don't see where a horse like Smooth Air, who has proven most likely to be best at 7f, will be murder turning back to it in August after all this two-turning? I'm not suggesting he's a Hard Spun in talent level, but in amongst this 2008 group, taking that same path should yield similar results. A reminder: He has won the Hutcheson and Ohio Derby; 2nd in the Florida Derby. Off the board once in his career (KY Derby). What is the knock on him exactly? He is a truly handy horse.. a rarity these days actually.
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2008, 08:58 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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They would be stupid NOT to be pointing for the King's Bishop. Win or lose, it's the right spot for Smooth Air.....and as of now he's more than a realistic competitor.
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2008, 09:01 PM
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Smooth Air is more talented than most in here give him credit for, hes like Tueflesberg. Tueflesberg was a top 3 horse in his respective crop, and that was a good group of horses
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  #4  
Old 05-31-2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
Smooth Air is more talented than most in here give him credit for, hes like Tueflesberg. Tueflesberg was a top 3 horse in his respective crop, and that was a good group of horses
I agree that Tberg was underrated, but he was not top 3
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2008, 10:13 PM
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Bobby Fischer Bobby Fischer is offline
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Go Smooth Air
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  #6  
Old 06-01-2008, 08:25 AM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Come on man. No way Teufelsberg was among the top 3 talented that year and there is no way Smooth Air is in the top 10 talented this year. He'll be able to earn a lot of money this year if placed correctly. But he isn't much IMO. Where were all the Smooth Air people after the Derby?

I assume he meant in the third tier of top 3YOs.

As for Smooth Air, while I agree that it's funny that all the Smooth Air fans disappeared after the Derby, but not unexpected, I don't see why he shouldn't be pointed for the Kings Bishop. His Hutchenson was OK, albeit on a wet track, and the upside to winning a race like that is huge. It is, quite simply, the race he belongs in. That's not to say he will win.......but if you owned him wouldn't that at least be your goal?
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2008, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Come on man. No way Teufelsberg was among the top 3 talented that year and there is no way Smooth Air is in the top 10 talented this year. He'll be able to earn a lot of money this year if placed correctly. But he isn't much IMO. Where were all the Smooth Air people after the Derby?
Smooth Air isn't in the Top 10 among this crop of 3 year olds? Name 9 (after Big Brown) that have proven themselves better with their record, established speed, utility, etc.. Whatever criteria you want to use.

As a helper, here's the list of Top 3yo Beyers:


RTE:

Big Brown CD 03 May 1 1/4M 109
Big Brown GP 05 Mar 1M 106
Big Brown GP 29 Mar 1 1/8M 106
Harlem Rocker AQU 26 Apr 1M 106
Gayego OP 12 Apr 1 1/8M 103
Coal Play MTH 25 May 1M 70Y 102
Eight Belles (f) CD 03 May 1 1/4M 102
Recapturetheglory HAW 05 Apr 1 1/8M 102
Smooth Air TDN 31 May 1 1/8M 102
Z Fortune OP 12 Apr 1 1/8M 102
Casino Drive BEL 10 May 1 1/8M 101
Instill HAW 26 Apr 1 1/16M 101
J Be K AQU 26 Apr 1M 101


SPR:

Motovato CRC 25 Apr 7F 111
Bob Black Jack SA 26 Jan 6F 109
Storm Mesa (f) LS 26 May 7F 108
Dancing in Silks HOL 27 Apr 6 1/2F 103
Gattopardo LRL 01 Mar 7F 103
Georgie Boy SA 10 Feb 7F 103
Gayego SA 20 Jan 6 1/2F 102
Mucho Macho BEL 17 May 6F 102
Informed Decision (f) KEE 11 Apr 6 1/2F 101
Jockey Ridge GP 18 Jan 6 1/2F 101
Lantana Mob PIM 17 May 6F 101
Lieutenant Ron AQU 06 Apr 7F 101
Zaftig (f) BEL 03 May 7F 101
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All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2008, 10:21 AM
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Smooth Air is certainly a top 3yo in this crop, without question. He does nothing wrong, runs his race everytime hes lead over and does it against whomever enteres

As far as Tueflesberg goes he was a superstar, absolutely a top 3 horse in his crop. His talent was never realised by the average fan. I do not mean that as a dig, I just do not think you understand how superior of an animal you have to have to do what he did.

For him to outrun those stats and win the Woody Stevens, win Southwest, get beat a neck to Street Sense in the Bluegrass is mindboggling. Had he been in top connections care you are talking about a multiple G1 winner whos still running.

His trainer was 8 wins out of 271 starts, take him out of the equation and shes 3 for 250. Now either that horse was amazingly talented, or someone has fudged the numbers

Steve if you put Gayego, Coal Play, Recapture the Glory, and Smooth Air in line. You were given one pick to run on with as a DT horse who would you select?
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2008, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
Steve if you put Gayego, Coal Play, Recapture the Glory, and Smooth Air in line. You were given one pick to run on with as a DT horse who would you select?
You're asking me who do I pick? Is that a trick question? Smooth Air. I had him picked in January when no one knew who he was...
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All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2008, 11:56 AM
horseofcourse horseofcourse is offline
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To answer the question of listing 8 other 3 yr old colts who have proven themselves better or accomplished more than Smooth Air. I think it can't be done.
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  #11  
Old 06-01-2008, 11:12 AM
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Sometimes the average fans still fail to understand
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2008, 11:25 AM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
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its mindboggling that anybody would consider Tueflesberg as being in the top 3 in his crop based on the Bluegrass. I guess that puts Dominican at the head of the class.
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2008, 10:30 AM
stonegossard stonegossard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
Smooth Air isn't in the Top 10 among this crop of 3 year olds? Name 9 (after Big Brown) that have proven themselves better with their record, established speed, utility, etc.. Whatever criteria you want to use.

As a helper, here's the list of Top 3yo Beyers:


RTE:

Big Brown CD 03 May 1 1/4M 109
Big Brown GP 05 Mar 1M 106
Big Brown GP 29 Mar 1 1/8M 106
Harlem Rocker AQU 26 Apr 1M 106
Gayego OP 12 Apr 1 1/8M 103
Coal Play MTH 25 May 1M 70Y 102
Eight Belles (f) CD 03 May 1 1/4M 102
Recapturetheglory HAW 05 Apr 1 1/8M 102
Smooth Air TDN 31 May 1 1/8M 102
Z Fortune OP 12 Apr 1 1/8M 102
Casino Drive BEL 10 May 1 1/8M 101
Instill HAW 26 Apr 1 1/16M 101
J Be K AQU 26 Apr 1M 101


SPR:

Motovato CRC 25 Apr 7F 111
Bob Black Jack SA 26 Jan 6F 109
Storm Mesa (f) LS 26 May 7F 108
Dancing in Silks HOL 27 Apr 6 1/2F 103
Gattopardo LRL 01 Mar 7F 103
Georgie Boy SA 10 Feb 7F 103
Gayego SA 20 Jan 6 1/2F 102
Mucho Macho BEL 17 May 6F 102
Informed Decision (f) KEE 11 Apr 6 1/2F 101
Jockey Ridge GP 18 Jan 6 1/2F 101
Lantana Mob PIM 17 May 6F 101
Lieutenant Ron AQU 06 Apr 7F 101
Zaftig (f) BEL 03 May 7F 101
Steve
While he ran a nice Beyer yesterday it was a HORRIFIC field.

3 yr olds in my opinion who are better than Smooth Air....

BB
Casino Drive
Colonel John
Bob Blackjack
Denis of Cork
Gayego
Harlem Rocker
Georgie Boy
J BE K
Tale of Ekati



Notice I left off Visionaire.
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2008, 10:39 AM
hockey2315 hockey2315 is offline
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I'm not an Smooth Air hater like some, but, there are a bunch of horses with a lot more potential. . . He's accomplished more at this point then most, though. He's solid, but there's definitely a ceiling as to how good he can be.

Harlem Rocker
Casino Drive
Unbridled's Heart
Lt. Ron
Biker Boy
Georgie Boy
Pyro (did everyone forget about him?)

If we count the fillies Eight Belles and Proud Spell

Motovato if he ever runs back to anything close to that race at CRC (I think I read that Wolfson's shipping him up to run this weekend in the Woody Stephens)

Maybe J Be K. . .
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2008, 01:16 PM
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VOL JACK VOL JACK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonegossard
Steve
While he ran a nice Beyer yesterday it was a HORRIFIC field.

3 yr olds in my opinion who are better than Smooth Air....

BB
Casino Drive
Colonel John
Bob Blackjack
Denis of Cork
Gayego
Harlem Rocker
Georgie Boy
J BE K
Tale of Ekati



Notice I left off Visionaire.
you really think there are 3yos on the west coast that can beat Smooth Air? LOL
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  #16  
Old 06-01-2008, 02:05 PM
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ateamstupid ateamstupid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonegossard
Steve
While he ran a nice Beyer yesterday it was a HORRIFIC field.

3 yr olds in my opinion who are better than Smooth Air....

BB
Casino Drive
Colonel John
Bob Blackjack
Denis of Cork
Gayego
Harlem Rocker
Georgie Boy
J BE K
Tale of Ekati



Notice I left off Visionaire.
Yes
Probably
Maybe
No
Maybe
No
Yes
Maybe
Maybe
No
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2008, 06:37 PM
jcs11204 jcs11204 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Isn't Tale of Ekati's resume at least as good as Smooth Air's? And where did each finish in the Derby?
i have to jump in... i am not a hater or lover of smooth air or tale of ekati
but tale of ekati is much better then smooth air, and like horse sAID above his resume is as good if not better, actually i dont see as good... its 100% better at this point.... futurity and wood winner... or smooth air ?
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2008, 10:49 AM
hockey2315 hockey2315 is offline
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I can't decide if Denis is more talented. I've been on his bandwagon for a long time but I'm still not so sure he is. If they send Samba Rooster to the King's Bishop he'll be dangerous.
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  #19  
Old 05-31-2008, 11:46 PM
stonegossard stonegossard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
Pete,

Why would Harlem Rocker be in the King's Bishop? And J Be K? He has one race that stands out as anything impactful. You don't see where a horse like Smooth Air, who has proven most likely to be best at 7f, will be murder turning back to it in August after all this two-turning? I'm not suggesting he's a Hard Spun in talent level, but in amongst this 2008 group, taking that same path should yield similar results. A reminder: He has won the Hutcheson and Ohio Derby; 2nd in the Florida Derby. Off the board once in his career (KY Derby). What is the knock on him exactly? He is a truly handy horse.. a rarity these days actually.

If Harlem Rocker doesnt get the distance up in Canada one would think that they might turn back and go for those 3 yr old sprints up at Saratoga. J Be K IMHO is much faster than Smooth Air. SO I guess Smooth Air would be running for 3rd.

I am just not as impressed by others with Smooth Air. Todays race was pitiful as he faced a bunch of misfits. His other races are ok. I just dont see him stepping up to Grade I.
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2008, 12:52 AM
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RolloTomasi RolloTomasi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonegossard
If Harlem Rocker doesnt get the distance up in Canada one would think that they might turn back and go for those 3 yr old sprints up at Saratoga. J Be K IMHO is much faster than Smooth Air. SO I guess Smooth Air would be running for 3rd.

I am just not as impressed by others with Smooth Air. Todays race was pitiful as he faced a bunch of misfits. His other races are ok. I just dont see him stepping up to Grade I.
As far as 3yo sprinters pointing for the King's Bishop go, two up-and-comers would be Two Step Salsa and Black Wolf out west and Behindatthebar and Gayego cutting back. The latter two are probably toast as it stands so who cares. I'm sure John Shireffs lacks the imagination to consider it, but the Mizzen Mast (a powerful winner of the 7f Malibu a few years back) colt, Madeo, would add to an interesting group of horses. Salute The Sarge gets one more shot with a better pace scenario than his last if he ever reappears.

Still, if I had to put money down right now, I'd go with El Gato Malo once he's definitely exposed at races beyond a mile.
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