Biancone, cold with 2 year olds, my theory why

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by JJP

Interesting angle. But isn't it possible that maybe there's some sort of virus going thru Biancone's barn? Maybe nothing serious but we see how streaky some trainers get.

It also should be pointed out that trainers like Romans and others were doing quite well at CD and Kee when shipping in from TP off the Polytrack workouts. Also isn't it possible that Biancone's horses may be better when the distances get longer since so many of them are classicly bred?

There are a million reasons but polytrack isn't one. Horses do just fine going from poly to dirt, as you pointed out. They just don't like polytrack and they worship Saratoga. Keeneland, and probably Del Mar and Churchill are going poly and they are trying to make their great NY tracks out to be something special.

Who cares about the horses being safer on poly though as long as Saratoga stays dirt. Screw the horses. LOL

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

There are a million reasons but polytrack isn't one. Horses do just fine going from poly to dirt, as you pointed out. They just don't like polytrack and they worship Saratoga. Keeneland, and probably Del Mar and Churchill are going poly and they are trying to make their great NY tracks out to be something special.

Who cares about the horses being safer on poly though as long as Saratoga stays dirt. Screw the horses. LOL

Show me the FACTS that polytrack is actually safer than a well founded dirt track and I would agree that switching surfaces is better. I don't think that polytrack has been around long enough in order to prove that it is safer.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Show me the FACTS that polytrack is actually safer than a well founded dirt track and I would agree that switching surfaces is better. I don't think that polytrack has been around long enough in order to prove that it is safer.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Polytrack is much safer and any horseman knows that. Get on a horse on the poly and you will see how much firmer a footing a horse has.

Here from Keeneland

Why Keeneland Believes A Polytrack Racing Surface Is Superior to a Conventional Dirt Track
Statistics are showing that Polytrack is a safer racing surface for horses and jockeys. Its soft surface is kinder to horses’ joints and legs.
A Polytrack surface remains consistent regardless of weather. Comparatively, with a conventional dirt track, weather--especially rain and cold temperatures that can cause a racetrack to freeze and thaw--can produce dangerous conditions on a racing surface.
Since installing Polytrack, Turfway Park has improved safety, increased the number of starters, and greatly decreased the number of cancelled racing dates due to track condition or weather.

Fall ’04 thru Winter ‘05 Fall ’05 thru Winter ‘06
Catastrophic Breakdowns 24 3
Number of Starters 8,925 10,208
Cancelled Racing Days 11 1

from 24 breakdowns to 3. 11 cancelled racing days to 1.

The sub layers include porous macadam and dense aggregate rock that provide a solid foundation while vertical drainage pipes carry water away from the track. Together, these elements provide a safer, more consistent racing surface compared to a conventional dirt track.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

This is absolutely ridiculous. Polytrack is much safer and any horseman knows that. Get on a horse on the poly and you will see how much firmer a footing a horse has.

Here from Keeneland

Why Keeneland Believes A Polytrack Racing Surface Is Superior to a Conventional Dirt Track
Statistics are showing that Polytrack is a safer racing surface for horses and jockeys. Its soft surface is kinder to horses’ joints and legs.
A Polytrack surface remains consistent regardless of weather. Comparatively, with a conventional dirt track, weather--especially rain and cold temperatures that can cause a racetrack to freeze and thaw--can produce dangerous conditions on a racing surface.
Since installing Polytrack, Turfway Park has improved safety, increased the number of starters, and greatly decreased the number of cancelled racing dates due to track condition or weather.

Fall ’04 thru Winter ‘05 Fall ’05 thru Winter ‘06
Catastrophic Breakdowns 24 3
Number of Starters 8,925 10,208
Cancelled Racing Days 11 1

from 24 breakdowns to 3. 11 cancelled racing days to 1.

The sub layers include porous macadam and dense aggregate rock that provide a solid foundation while vertical drainage pipes carry water away from the track. Together, these elements provide a safer, more consistent racing surface compared to a conventional dirt track.

Like I said, i'm not going to believe that it is 100% safer by looking at two seasons on the surface. You also need to take into consideration, how many of those 24 breakdowns on the dirt were missteps, etc.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Like I said, i'm not going to believe that it is 100% safer by looking at two seasons on the surface. You also need to take into consideration, how many of those 24 breakdowns on the dirt were missteps, etc.

The poly has has also cut veterinary bills by 30 percent to 40 percent. Even though vets are losing money they all agree that it is better for the horses.

They also love it over at Lingfield.

[slotdirt]

If horses run so well from poly to dirt, why is it a pretty widely used angle to not use a horse who has run really well on poly their first start back on dirt? Just wondering.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

If horses run so well from poly to dirt, why is it a pretty widely used angle to not use a horse who has run really well on poly their first start back on dirt? Just wondering.

It isn't a good angle at all. There is no statistical proof of it. The only statistical proof so far is that poly is safer than horses. They have found nothing to prove what you are saying.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

It isn't a good angle at all. There is no statistical proof of it. The only statistical proof so far is that poly is safer than horses. They have found nothing to prove what you are saying.

Notice how the article title read... Why Keeneland Believes A Polytrack Racing Surface Is Superior to a Conventional Dirt Track.

Big difference between facts and BELIEFS. Geesh... do we need to get the dictionary out again?

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Notice how the article title read... Why Keeneland Believes A Polytrack Racing Surface Is Superior to a Conventional Dirt Track.

Big difference between facts and BELIEFS. Geesh... do we need to get the dictionary out again?

Facts

1) casualties went way down
2) racing days went up
3) vet costs are down
4) vets believe it is safer because of the footing horses get
5) top trainers are now moving their horses to train on the poly
6) CA and KY tracks are going to it.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...1horsecol.html

Stop being clueless and brainwashed by these poly haters like NYRA. The horses should come first.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Facts

1) casualties went way down
2) racing days went up
3) vet costs are down
4) vets believe it is safer because of the footing horses get
5) top trainers are now moving their horses to train on the poly
6) CA and KY tracks are going to it.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...1horsecol.html

Stop being clueless and brainwashed by these poly haters like NYRA. The horses should come first.

If this has been said already, I don't know. But I stand by Cliff Guilliams quote and ask: "Where are the stats of how many were Vanned off at Turfway." A good quote might I add, and something I would like to see answered.

[slotdirt]

Isn't Nostradamus aka boldruler the same guy that claims to only have been following horse racing for a matter of months, yet now we're supposed to believe what he has to say on polytrack vs. dirt and what trainers and others in the business may or may not believe is the better surface?

I'll pass, thanks.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Isn't Nostradamus aka boldruler the same guy that claims to only have been following horse racing for a matter of months, yet now we're supposed to believe what he has to say on polytrack vs. dirt and what trainers and others in the business may or may not believe is the better surface?

I'll pass, thanks.

I personally don't like it but an too lazy to change the screen name.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Notice how the article title read... Why Keeneland Believes A Polytrack Racing Surface Is Superior to a Conventional Dirt Track.

Big difference between facts and BELIEFS. Geesh... do we need to get the dictionary out again?

Cajun, I had two horses train and race over the PolyTrack surface and I can say without a doubt that the surface is much kinder to the horse. They have studied this extensively over in Europe. There is not enough data on PolyTrack runners going to dirt or to turf yet. We need about 3 racing seasons to figure that out. But the horses I have co-owned are much more sound when training and racing on PolyTrack. I just had a horse race at Mountaineer and she finished 2nd last weekend. She has since worked over the track at Mountaineer and she came back sore. So we are shipping her back to Turfway to work.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Cajun, I had two horses train and race over the PolyTrack surface and I can say without a doubt that the surface is much kinder to the horse. They have studied this extensively over in Europe. There is not enough data on PolyTrack runners going to dirt or to turf yet. We need about 3 racing seasons to figure that out. But the horses I have co-owned are much more sound when training and racing on PolyTrack. I just had a horse race at Mountaineer and she finished 2nd last weekend. She has since worked over the track at Mountaineer and she came back sore. So we are shipping her back to Turfway to work.

Thank you, Euro. As a horse owner, you would know. I don't own a racehorse, so I will take your word for it.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

There are a million reasons but polytrack isn't one. Horses do just fine going from poly to dirt, as you pointed out. They just don't like polytrack and they worship Saratoga. Keeneland, and probably Del Mar and Churchill are going poly and they are trying to make their great NY tracks out to be something special.

Who cares about the horses being safer on poly though as long as Saratoga stays dirt. Screw the horses. LOL

Churchill is not going Polytrack. The Cali tracks will, Woodbine is, Kee and TP are and probably Arlington in the future. But don't look for Churchill to change.

Originally Posted by JJP

Churchill is not going Polytrack. The Cali tracks will, Woodbine is, Kee and TP are and probably Arlington in the future. But don't look for Churchill to change.

Would it shock you if I told you that(strictly hearsay so Euro doesn't freak out) that some folks up here I know have said that a couple of prominent trainers out west are already making plans to run the bulk of their horses in Kentucky and NY and Gulfstream after the switch is made out in Cali? Noone with Derby dreams or grade one aspirations is going to want to prep for the Roses out there, and with good reason.
Good friend of mine is a retired trainer, now a clocker and manager of a few small stables. He trained for 33 years and told me last week when we were discussing breakdowns that in 33 years he had 3 horses break down and die on the track. He said that after each one he wanted to quite the game, said he never did anything in his life to hurt a horse. He told me emphatically that the reasons for the breakdowns are not the surfaces, but the trainers who now run horses back so quickly and often and the new vet techniques that allow a horse to run who should be laid up. Said all the hyuralonic acid and cortisone they use in joints as well as other medications are allowing horses to run who should never get by the vet but because they need to fill cards that noone disallows it. He also said in his unique Maryland accent "son if they go to that stuff it will change the whole breed around and screw up the whole breeding market and you tell me whose gonna pay all this money for horses when they aint worth nothing when they are done with the track". This guy is a unique racetrack character but did train a lot stakes winners and even had grade one winners. EPBurns knows this guy very well. He also pointed out that the guys pushing this stuff were all european and he said "**** son, them guys been trying to come over and beat us for years and they never could figure the **** out how to put the speed in em that we do and get em to stretch, they can't do it! All those ****ing guys wanna do is make it so horses without speed can just keep galloping along and win races."
Now you can tell me I don't know what I am talking about and you may be right, I am not a trainer, I don't know. But I can tell you that the trainers I know and have asked all dislike the stuff to a man, not one yet has told me they wanna race on it.

[Nostradamus]

Trainers like poly, gamblers (especially sheet users) are the ones that don't like it. They think it will make it too easy for everyone to handicap. That is really what is going on here. You don't need to be Nostradamus to see that. LOL.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Trainers like poly, gamblers (especially sheet users) are the ones that don't like it. They think it will make it too easy for everyone to handicap. That is really what is going on here. You don't need to be Nostradamus to see that. LOL.

The Polytrack people should pay you for your endorsement. Do you ever stop?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Trainers like poly, gamblers (especially sheet users) are the ones that don't like it. They think it will make it too easy for everyone to handicap. That is really what is going on here. You don't need to be Nostradamus to see that. LOL.

There is no way plastic can be safer for horses than dirt. No way. And for as long as they try putting this junk on racetracks, they will tell you the problem with kick-back is "being worked on."

It's all about short-sightedness. Saving one or two days of racing when all good sense says it's too cold or frozen to race. Does it really matter if Turfway runs that Tuesday night card in late November?

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

THE REAL REASON ORACLE IS BASHING POLYTRACK IS OBVIOUS TO ANYONE. Figure it out rocket scientist, or should I say mad scientist. .

Umm, I really don't know what the "real reason" is that you are eluding to. I honestly don't. But I will make you an offer. Attend workouts with me some morning up here and I can ask some trainers in front of you what they think about it and you can hear it for yourself. I'm not making this stuff up as i go along.