Inspirational and depressing at the same time

[philcski]

Originally Posted by justindew

And if Louis Quatorze hadn't gotten hurt after winning the Ben Ali in the spring.....

The handicap division of 1997 was probably the best we've had in the last 15 years.

Add in the fact that the 3YO's were excellent too, probably best 1-2-3-4 Derby finishers of the past 25 years (and the Belmont winner, another good one, didn't even run.)

[King Glorious]

Wow. Fifteen posts in this thread talking about the handicap division of 1997 and not one mention of Gentlemen. I guess people forget that he won the Hollywood Gold Cup, the Pacific Classic, the San Antonio (beating the previous year's BC Classic winner Alphabet Soup), and the Pimlico Special (beating some horse named Skip Away). In my opinion, at his best, he was the best of the group that year but at the very least, a thread shouldn't go 15 deep on the subject and he not be mentioned.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Wow. Fifteen posts in this thread talking about the handicap division of 1997 and not one mention of Gentlemen. I guess people forget that he won the Hollywood Gold Cup, the Pacific Classic, the San Antonio (beating the previous year's BC Classic winner Alphabet Soup), and the Pimlico Special (beating some horse named Skip Away). In my opinion, at his best, he was the best of the group that year but at the very least, a thread shouldn't go 15 deep on the subject and he not be mentioned.

Fair point... think that says a lot about the year, though.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Wow. Fifteen posts in this thread talking about the handicap division of 1997 and not one mention of Gentlemen. I guess people forget that he won the Hollywood Gold Cup, the Pacific Classic, the San Antonio (beating the previous year's BC Classic winner Alphabet Soup), and the Pimlico Special (beating some horse named Skip Away). In my opinion, at his best, he was the best of the group that year but at the very least, a thread shouldn't go 15 deep on the subject and he not be mentioned.

Gentlemen was terrific as well. It was unfortunate that when he came to NY in the Fall of 1998 he wasn't the same horse.

[Travis Stone]

I believe it was Formal Gold and Will's Way who battled down the stretch in the Whitney? That was the summer of great finishes at Saratoga.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Was that when he and Skip Away dueled torridly, while Wagon Limit went past both to win the Gold Cup in the slop?

I don't remember the race well enough to describe it that way but it was the day Wagon Limit won.

[parsixfarms]

This thread just goes to show how much of a crapshoot the breeding side of the business can be. The horses mentioned (or referenced) include Formal Gold, Skip Away, Louis Quatorze, Will's Way, Gentlemen, Silver Charm, Captain Bodgit, Free House, Behrens, Black Tie Affair and Touch Gold - all serious racehorses. Of all these, probably only Touch Gold could be considered a success at stud.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

This thread just goes to show how much of a crapshoot the breeding side of the business can be. The horses mentioned (or referenced) include Formal Gold, Skip Away, Louis Quatorze, Will's Way, Gentlemen, Silver Charm, Captain Bodgit, Free House, Behrens, Black Tie Affair and Touch Gold - all serious racehorses. Of all these, probably only Touch Gold could be considered a success at stud.

None of these top runners was fashionably-bred; in fact, they were all considered a bit 'down-market' in their breeding and were treated accordingly by the top tier breeders. They got the mares who were out of the half-sisters to the good runners instead of the half-sisters themselves, that sort of thing. Captain Bodgit died young, too.

[VOL JACK]

Funny that a horse could run second twice while earning a 122 and 126 beyer. How times have changed.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

None of these top runners was fashionably-bred; in fact, they were all considered a bit 'down-market' in their breeding and were treated accordingly by the top tier breeders. They got the mares who were out of the half-sisters to the good runners instead of the half-sisters themselves, that sort of thing. Captain Bodgit died young, too.

I agree that some were not fashionably bred, but compared to the others listed above, Behrens (Pleasant Colony), Will's Way (Easy Goer) and Captain Bodgit (Saint Ballado) certainly fit the bill. Starting out, they were certainly no less fashionably bred than horses like Indian Charlie (In Excess), Valid Expectations (Valid Appeal), Northern Afleet (Afleet), and Smoke Glacken (Two Punch).

Horses like Distorted Humor, Arch, and Elusive Quality all began their careers at stud fees in the $10,000 range, so it's not like they were getting bred to top mares when they started out. They just outperformed their more recognizable (from a racing perspective) contemporaries in the breeding shed and, as a result, are now getting the top mares that they earned the hard way.

Finally, the Thoroughbred Times Stallion Directory lists Captain Bodgit as standing in Canada.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

None of these top runners was fashionably-bred; in fact, they were all considered a bit 'down-market' in their breeding and were treated accordingly by the top tier breeders. They got the mares who were out of the half-sisters to the good runners instead of the half-sisters themselves, that sort of thing. Captain Bodgit died young, too.

Actually, Ann, it was Saint Ballado-- the Captain's SIRE that died young ....

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

None of these top runners was fashionably-bred; in fact, they were all considered a bit 'down-market' in their breeding and were treated accordingly by the top tier breeders. They got the mares who were out of the half-sisters to the good runners instead of the half-sisters themselves, that sort of thing. Captain Bodgit died young, too.

The Captain is alive and kicking.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Was that when he and Skip Away dueled torridly, while Wagon Limit went past both to win the Gold Cup in the slop?

Yes. Chuck and I were talking about that the other day, it was one of the last big races where he was an assistant to Jerkens.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

34-1, right? Of the other two, Gentlemen was the first to give way, and was well, well beaten that day. I don't recall the winner's margin, but it was a few lengths at least.

What a dank day at Belmont.

Yes he was. Gentleman was lame in the test barn afterwards. I think Siphon was in there too? Skip Away didnt look too good in the paddock before the race either.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Cardus

34-1, right? Of the other two, Gentlemen was the first to give way, and was well, well beaten that day. I don't recall the winner's margin, but it was a few lengths at least.

What a dank day at Belmont.

Actually, it was the other way around. Gentlemen, who gave Skip Away a brief scare in the Woodward, finally put that one away in early stretch of the JCGC, only to get run down by Wagon Limit.

Gentlemen was still 5 lengths in front of Skip Away at the wire.

[slotdirt]

I think I read Captain Bodgit or Will's Way - I can't remember which - is standing in Alberta somewhere for like $1500.

Of the ones you mentioned, Skip Away has to have been the biggest disappointment at stud.

[sumitas]

It's difficult to pass on racing performance.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by sumitas

It's difficult to pass on racing performance.

Compelling stuff, man. Nice job.