Dennis of cork, albarado off??

[Kasept]

Simply put... Anyone wanting to know where the decisions are coming from can look to Mark Reid, long-time adviser to the Warrens (i.e. Saint Liam).

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Simply put... Anyone wanting to know where the decisions are coming from can look to Mark Reid, long-time adviser to the Warrens (i.e. Saint Liam).

I guess all those years at Philly Park gave him his Derby Trail expertise

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I guess all those years at Philly Park gave him his Derby Trail expertise

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Steve, I'd like nothing more than to see Denis of Cork win the Derby, as I have him in a few futures. But, you'd have to admit that all of these changes in plans can't be good. Whatever happened to having a plan and sticking to it? Like I said, i hope their decisions work out, but they are very suspect, especially this close to the Derby.

i think i said a while back that i strongly dislike this horse, and took a lot of crap for it..... connections dont know what to do, and simply put hes just not that good

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i think i said a while back that i strongly dislike this horse, and took a lot of crap for it..... connections dont know what to do, and simply put hes just not that good

You don't know what you're talking about. Those 'connections' that 'don't know what to do' won a Breeders Cup Classic and had a Horse of the Year. David Carroll had a plan he wanted to stick with and would be doing things differently but is being countermanded by the owners' long time adviser. Like most subtleties, it's obviously lost on you that the horse is an undefeated graded stakes winner; has run faster on figs than all but Pyro and War Pass; and is better than virtually every other three year old in the country.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You don't know what you're talking about.

This just in.....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i think i said a while back that i strongly dislike this horse, and took a lot of crap for it..... connections dont know what to do, and simply put hes just not that good

he's not that good? now, that i disagree with. if anything costs this horse, it's the sudden indecisions over the last few weeks that will have cost him, and the one race in 11 weeks is a big concern. i don't think the HORSE has done anything wrong tho.
i liked this horse more than most in this crop, and with war passes recent non effort, i think the field is wide open. but i'm lukewarm towards denis now due to the changes we've seen recently with his schedule. the name sucks, but lil e tee won, so that doesn't mean much. i don't like cool coal mans moniker either, but still picked him to win the FOY.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Steve, I'd like nothing more than to see Denis of Cork win the Derby, as I have him in a few futures. But, you'd have to admit that all of these changes in plans can't be good. Whatever happened to having a plan and sticking to it? Like I said, i hope their decisions work out, but they are very suspect, especially this close to the Derby.

Carroll is frustrated as his plan was established going back to last year. He is being a team player trying to say the right thing, but I'm sure he isn't happy. He is also quite concerned that if things don't go as well as they hope he will be the one taking the heat... as he already has somewhat from people who don't understand the way things work frequently in these situations.

And to make it clear... Anyone who thinks that Carroll wouldn't know how to bring a horse into the Triple Crown the right way is unenlightened. He was there every step of the way galloping Easy Goer.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

And to make it clear... Anyone who thinks that Carroll wouldn't know how to bring a horse into the Triple Crown the right way is unenlightened. He was there every step of the way galloping Easy Goer.

I have no knocks on Carroll at all - but I think you are really overplaying this 'he galloped Easy Goer' thing a lot.

In my always humble opinion, the fact that he got up on Easy Goer (who lost the Derby at 4/5, lost the Preakness at 3/5, and lost the Breeders Cup Classic at 1/2) doesn't really mean that much to me when we are talking about Denis Of Cork.

I believe whoever is calling the shots with DoC is doing a masterful job.

A FG Alw race, followed by a Graded stake that features Turf War and the returning Riley Tucker as the two favorites, followed by the Ill Derby is taking the path of least resistance into the Derby.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I have no knocks on Carroll at all - but I think you are really overplaying this 'he galloped Easy Goer' thing a lot.

In my always humble opinion, the fact that he got up on Easy Goer (who lost the Derby at 4/5, lost the Preakness at 3/5, and lost the Breeders Cup Classic at 1/2) doesn't really mean that much to me when we are talking about Denis Of Cork..

You don't really want to argue the merits of Easy Goer with me. I don't really wish to get into a savaging of Day and incriminations of Whittingham in public. Hopefully it will suffice to say that there are enough people out there whose opinions you respect that know the score on this topic that ensure the scale always comes out on Easy Goer's side.

And I'm not overplaying a trainer's preparedness to hone a horse THAT HE RIDES when it comes to having one right for a specific race or set of races.. You're out of your element on this particular topic.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You don't really want to argue the merits of Easy Goer with me. I don't really wish to get into a savaging of Day and incriminations of Whittingham in public. Hopefully it will suffice to say that there are enough people out there whose opinions you respect that know the score on this topic that ensure the scale always comes out on Easy Goer's side.

Easy Goer was about as much horse as I have ever seen.

But what he has to do with Denis Of Cork's chances in the Derby I simply don't know.

Originally Posted by Kasept

And I'm not overplaying a trainer's preparedness to hone a horse THAT HE RIDES when it comes to having one right for a specific race or set of races.. You're out of your element on this particular topic.

I laughed.

Hmm. I've got an idea.

Maybe an Easy Goer replica good luck miniature (kinda like the good luck trolls but a horse) would be the latest craze? Numerous miniatures to choose from with a wide array of neon manes . Also for hardcore Easy Goer good luck miniature fans a limited edition David Carroll - Exercise Rider miniature and a saddle.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Easy Goer was about as much horse as I have ever seen.

But what he has to do with Denis Of Cork's chances in the Derby I simply don't know.

I laughed.

The comments in question had only to do with the impuning of Easy Goer's preparedness for the Spring Classics, which had been my original point of reference. He has to do with Carroll prepping DoC for the TC season by way of having been through the TC with a top horse.. something many other trainers have not..


.. and I'm glad your sense of humor is intact.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The comments in question had only to do with the impuning of Easy Goer's preparedness for the Spring Classics, which had been my original point of reference. He has to do with Carroll prepping DoC for the TC season by way of having been through the TC with a top horse.. something many other trainers have not..

Ok, but Easy Goer is not the greatest example of a horse who was so well 'primed' to peak on the big day.

He lost the BC Juvenile at 1/5, lost the Ky Derby at 4/5, lost the Preakness at 3/5, and lost the BC Classic at 1/2.

I know the two CD losses can be explained away based on track condition, and the Preakness and BC Classic losses can be explained away by Easy Goer's lack of professionalism. Sure you can blame Day for a pair of poor looking rides in those two races, but it was the horse who ducked in at the gap in the Classic, and it was the horse who ran in spots, raced erratic, and appeared to lose focus in those races.

Easy Goer was such an overwhelming favorite in those races simply because he was so awesome in all of his other races. He actually ran excellent in defeat in two of the three SS losses as well.

Let me say again - I don't view DoC being trained by Carroll as a negative in any way.

I think "having the experience of having been through the triple crown with a top horse" is a bit overrated anyway. And in Carroll's case, I guess it came 19 years ago and as an excersize rider.

Wasn't Jan Rushton an excersize rider for Shug?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You don't really want to argue the merits of Easy Goer with me. I don't really wish to get into a savaging of Day and incriminations of Whittingham in public. Hopefully it will suffice to say that there are enough people out there whose opinions you respect that know the score on this topic that ensure the scale always comes out on Easy Goer's side.

Oh, let's go ahead and get into it.
Easy Goer was one hell of a horse. There is no question about it.
That being said, the better horse won three out of four in that series. Not even nearly twenty years of New York-biased whining coupled with accusations of questionable merit can change that fact.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Oh, let's go ahead and get into it.
Easy Goer was one hell of a horse. There is no question about it.
That being said, the better horse won three out of four in that series. Not even nearly twenty years of New York-biased whining coupled with accusations of questionable merit can change that fact.

Frozen blood samples would have come in handy at some point over these 20 years..

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Frozen blood samples would have come in handy at some point over these 20 years..

Where is this "doped" Sunday Silence angle coming from?

It's certainly interesting, because it was Easy Goer that dropped dead of cancer at the tender age of 9.

Of course, he was stabled for the most part at Belmont, so maybe those X-File guys were spraying the barn area even back then.

Mr. Wilhelm?

My name is Tina...

You chose HIM over ME?!

[JJP]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Oh, let's go ahead and get into it.
Easy Goer was one hell of a horse. There is no question about it.
That being said, the better horse won three out of four in that series. Not even nearly twenty years of New York-biased whining coupled with accusations of questionable merit can change that fact.

You are right on with that last comment. Yeah EG beat SS big at 1 1/2 miles, but at 1 1/2 miles, who cares? Its an irrelevant distance in American dirt racing. But I'm sure I'll get criticized for agreeing with you on this; and it is an East Coast dominated board.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by JJP

You are right on with that last comment. Yeah EG beat SS big at 1 1/2 miles, but at 1 1/2 miles, who cares? Its an irrelevant distance in American dirt racing. But I'm sure I'll get criticized for agreeing with you on this; and it is an East Coast dominated board.

Nothing wrong with the East Coast. I lived in NYC for three years and loved every minute of it. I just think that on this one issue, where there was a great NY horse and a great Cali-horse with a great rivalry, some people still just have trouble granting Sunday Silence his due credit.
I also don't know that I would call 12f an "irrelevant distance."

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I've never said Carroll can't get a horse to the triple crown, of course he can. My only issue is the plan keeps changing. I think that the connections, other than Carroll, are making Carroll's job a lot more difficult than it has to be, by changing their mind so much. Should be interesting to see how it all works out.

Wasn't directing the my closing comment at you..