War Pass --DB ?

[The Bid]

Hoss hearing that would put anyone back in their seat

[Scav]

I highly doubt that Zito would run a horse that just had a fever a week ago, I just don't see him operating that way.

[King Glorious]

I'm surprised that the announcement hasn't been made yet. It will be before the weekend is up. He's done.

[Left Bank]

I may be wrong,but didn't this same thing happen to Commentator a few years back at Gulfstream?? Zito brought him back in a cheap 65 k stake at Aqueduct on the inner,then he went to Gulf,was the talk of the town,and finished dead last???...

[Travis Stone]

Unless the horse is physically hurt, I would be shocked if they tossed out a KY Derby bid. These come along rarely for folks and when you get a runner, the retirement factors in only with serious injury or its post-Triple Crown.

[pick4]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

I may be wrong,but didn't this same thing happen to Commentator a few years back at Gulfstream?? Zito brought him back in a cheap 65 k stake at Aqueduct on the inner,then he went to Gulf,was the talk of the town,and finished dead last???...

Must be a different horse. Commentator has never run at Aqueduct and he's 2 for 3 at Gulfstream Park with a 7th place finish out of 12 horses in the Hal Hope Handicap on January 5, 2005.

[pick4]

Originally Posted by Scav

I highly doubt that Zito would run a horse that just had a fever a week ago, I just don't see him operating that way.

According to the owner that's exactly what they did.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/93015.html Paragraph four

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by pick4

Must be a different horse. Commentator has never run at Aqueduct and he's 2 for 3 at Gulfstream Park with a 7th place finish out of 12 horses in the Hal Hope Handicap on January 5, 2005.

Okay,I was mistaken.But I think the race before the Hal's Hope is the one I was thinking of,I thought it was at Aqueduct,where was it at?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I will never view Zito in the same light again. As if Bellamy Road wasn't enough, but I could understand the Travers because it was a really big race and they were only going to be able to get one more race out of the horse anyway. Plus, I'm sure he had pressure from the owners.

Zito did nothing wrong with the way he handled Bellamy Road.

As for what LaPenta said after the race - I ignore that type of stuff. The horse is a very valuable animal - and if he they weren't 100% confident he was ok on race day - he wouldn't have run.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Zito did nothing wrong with the way he handled Bellamy Road.

As for what LaPenta said after the race - I ignore that type of stuff. The horse is a very valuable animal - and if he they weren't 100% confident he was ok on race day - he wouldn't have run.

ask lukas about landaluce or gary jones about lakeway.

[sumitas]

La Penta acts like he's the trainer so I would guess he's the guy that said run him.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Zito did nothing wrong with the way he handled Bellamy Road.

As for what LaPenta said after the race - I ignore that type of stuff. The horse is a very valuable animal - and if he they weren't 100% confident he was ok on race day - he wouldn't have run.

As much as you think it is right to ignore what LaPenta had to say, people who read your last sentence should, by a factor of 10, ask the question, how the hell do you know that?

Of course you don't know. The truth is nether does Zito. And it is far from uimpossible that the need to run the colt and stay on schedule outweighed any concerns about minor conditioning issues.

Frankly, I'm curious under what conditions you think a horse IS NOT adversely affected by a fever a few days prior to his race.

[Travis Stone]

Debating whether or not the horse was healthy is a moot debate. The question is now - what next?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

how the hell do you know that?

If you think they would risk such a valuable animal that wasn't right - just to keep him on their originally planned prep schedule - all I can do is disagree.

The rumor was around that he was sick for a day and a half - the 59th minute of the Roger Stein show Saturday morning was the only place I'm aware of that got the rumor out to the betting public - but it was out.

Maybe I am just naive - but if you aren't 100% sure that the horse is ok, you scratch and train up to the Wood.

You don't put your valuable horse in a position to embarass himself or worse, hurt himself.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Debating whether or not the horse was healthy is a moot debate. The question is now - what next?

That depends on how the horse is. We aren't going to get anywhere debating that either.

[Kasept]

Rarely have I seen such inane reaction to an off performance. I suppose it's because we get so few starts from the classic-campaigning runners, but some of what's been written is so outlandish that it's hard to believe.

People claim they're fans of racing... Well if they are, then they should be well aware that horses lose. They have off performances and toss clunkers. They run through issues like spiked fevers and stay on schedule for races and get beat because they aren't 100% that day.

No one recalls Holy Bull being beaten 24 lengths in the Fountain of Youth? Afleet Alex' Rebel? Real Quiet's Golden Gate Derby? Obviously not because the same ridiculous comments that are sprinkled throughout this thread, and the laughable 'oh my gosh' thread, were said about those 3 year olds, Croll, Ritchey and Baffert at the time.

It could be that we've been conditioned to think that an off effort means a soon-to-be-discovered hidden problem and immediate retirement because connections don't work through issues anymore. And while everyone is entitled to offer their opinion on the topic, some degree of reasonable and rational reaction coupled with a dash of historical perspective is highly suggested.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

It could be that we've been conditioned to think that an off effort means a soon-to-be-discovered hidden problem and immediate retirement because connections don't work through issues anymore. And while everyone is entitled to offer their opinion on the topic, some degree of reasonable and rational reaction coupled with a dash of historical perspective is highly suggested.

We have had so many taken away from us that you are right, we are conditioned, and rightful so, that when a performance like that happens, bon voyage.

[Gate Dancer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Rarely have I seen such inane reaction to an off performance. I suppose it's because we get so few starts from the classic-campaigning runners, but some of what's been written is so outlandish that it's hard to believe.

People claim they're fans of racing... Well if they are, then they should be well aware that horses lose. They have off performances and toss clunkers. They run through issues like spiked fevers and stay on schedule for races and get beat because they aren't 100% that day.

No one recalls Holy Bull being beaten 24 lengths in the Fountain of Youth? Afleet Alex' Rebel? Real Quiet's Golden Gate Derby? Obviously not because the same ridiculous comments that are sprinkled throughout this thread, and the laughable 'oh my gosh' thread, were said about those 3 year olds, Croll, Ritchey and Baffert at the time.

It could be that we've been conditioned to think that an off effort means a soon-to-be-discovered hidden problem and immediate retirement because connections don't work through issues anymore. And while everyone is entitled to offer their opinion on the topic, some degree of reasonable and rational reaction coupled with a dash of historical perspective is highly suggested.

Right on Steve, well said !!!!!!!!!!! I think this just makes the workouts and preps that much more valuable going forward. The handicapping challenge between now and May 3rd just got totally blown up. Maybe this is an average group but I believe there will be great value and betting opportunities if you can make the right choice. War Pass fans can toss the race and War Pass bashers feel vindicated. Great stuff ahead!!!!!!!

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

That depends on how the horse is. We aren't going to get anywhere debating that either.

Well, that's what I mean. What's next in terms of how is the horse, how do they react to yesterday's performance etc.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Rarely have I seen such inane reaction to an off performance. I suppose it's because we get so few starts from the classic-campaigning runners, but some of what's been written is so outlandish that it's hard to believe.

People claim they're fans of racing... Well if they are, then they should be well aware that horses lose. They have off performances and toss clunkers. They run through issues like spiked fevers and stay on schedule for races and get beat because they aren't 100% that day.

No one recalls Holy Bull being beaten 24 lengths in the Fountain of Youth? Afleet Alex' Rebel? Real Quiet's Golden Gate Derby? Obviously not because the same ridiculous comments that are sprinkled throughout this thread, and the laughable 'oh my gosh' thread, were said about those 3 year olds, Croll, Ritchey and Baffert at the time.

It could be that we've been conditioned to think that an off effort means a soon-to-be-discovered hidden problem and immediate retirement because connections don't work through issues anymore. And while everyone is entitled to offer their opinion on the topic, some degree of reasonable and rational reaction coupled with a dash of historical perspective is highly suggested.

Steve, you left out the most important point which is this horse was 1-20.

1-20 is an awful lot of historical perspective. So much so, perhaps, that even the most expert among us would be hard pressed to recall the last undefeated 2 yo champ who went down badly in an important prep race at that kind of price. Add to that the extra flavoring of the horse being off for a day or two due to fever or whatever.

That is the correct perspective? Maybe not. Then again, ....

Yes, I remember Holy Bull and Real Quiet. And, like a lot of people, I remember Spectacular Bid's Belmont and Secretariat's Wood where they were both compromised by condition issues. Don't you think Bid's and Secretariat's people felt pressure to run despite being less than 100%?

But you are right; they are not machines and they are not always going to be 100%. The owner and trainer can run their horse whenever and however they choose.

When you go down at 1-20 as the undefeated 2 yo champ when perhaps, or even likely, not 100%, there is going to be a lot of elbow room in that reuinion tour.