Grade 1 Winners Mystery Question

[King Glorious]

It doesn't happen to often but I do think that there are more horses that could do it if put in that situation. Bigsmc mentioned Unbridled earlier. Recently, BTW was reminding me of Turkoman. Neither of those horses would ever be thought of as sprinters but because they were talented horses, they could do it. I think that what happens too often today is that horses get pigeoholed into something and that's the only thing they are given the opportunity to do. I think there could be a lot more horses that could switch back and forth between dirt and grass. I think there could be a lot more times when we'd see fillies beating the boys. But unfortunately, taking chances is frowned upon. Sometimes I wonder how much I would have been laughed at and riduculed if this were 1973 and I was suggesting that the best dirt horse in the world skip the JCGC and instead make his turf debut in the Man o'War?

I think Philski is absolutely right about Hard Spun. Had he won the Haskell, I feel like it was almost a certainty that they would have went the Travers route even thought it might not have been the best one. Like with Roman Ruler a few years ago. Like with Lion Heart. Pressures to go the traditional routes with horses instead of being original.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cardus

It is extremely rare for horses to excel -- or even be competitive at the graded level -- on both surfaces. I disagree.

Neat point, though, about if this were 1973.

barbaro

did commentator win a sprint after the whitney?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cardus

It is extremely rare for horses to excel -- or even be competitive at the graded level -- on both surfaces. I disagree.

Neat point, though, about if this were 1973.

How many get the chance though? When I see horses like Nobiz and Showing Up do it, I know there are others that are more talented that could. They may not be able to be top five in the country on both surfaces but could be more than capable of competing in graded races. Lava Man and Candy Ride just came to my mind. Asi Siempre. Barbaro. Giant's Causeway, Sakhee, Jolypha, Ibn Bey, Arcangues, Sheikh Albadou, Dayjur, Johannesburg, Arazi. I'm convinced it could be done more often than most people think.

[Linny]

Happens all the time in South America. They do dirt to grass alot.

Jones felt that Hard Spun would have been a world class grass miler.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Linny

Happens all the time in South America. They do dirt to grass alot.

Jones felt that Hard Spun would have been a world class grass miler.

I think of all the horses who retired early last year...Hard Spun is the one I am most disappointed in not seeing develop further.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Linny

Happens all the time in South America. They do dirt to grass alot.

Jones felt that Hard Spun would have been a world class grass miler.

They do dirt to grass there. In the rest of the world, they do females against males all the time. They do 3yo's against older all the time. I've even seen a couple of 2yo's facing older horses in some of their sprint stakes. It makes me glad that horses like Ouija Board and Miesque and Ridgewood Pearl were campaigned over there instead of over here because they weren't limited to our silly traditions.

We had a stretch here from 1982 to 1996 where the Met Mile was won by Conquistador Cielo, Gulch, Dixie Brass, Holy Bull, and Honour and Glory. Housebuster ran second. All 3yo's. But for some reason, running a good 3yo in the race has fallen out of favor and I don't understand why. A 3yo gets something like a 13 pound allowance from older horses on the scale. That's huge. If I had a horse like War Pass and he lost the Derby, I'd be headed right for the Met. Back in 2004, I very nearly went to my knees to beg this guy to run Lion Heart in the Met after he lost the Derby but they insisted on the Preakness. Damn traditions.

[Sightseek]

Dark Mirage...anyone have her PP's?

[Linny]

There are fewer options for fillies in Europe against their own gender. Similarly, once the classics are run the 3yo's dont have tons of places to go against just each other.
They don't really have the equivalent of the Travers or Swaps or King's Bishop to run for. I love seeing 3yo's in the Met. Invariable the 3yo Met winner gets toasted in races like the Wood or the Blue Grass when they should be reading to go an all out blast for a mile at the end of May.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They do dirt to grass there. In the rest of the world, they do females against males all the time. They do 3yo's against older all the time. I've even seen a couple of 2yo's facing older horses in some of their sprint stakes. It makes me glad that horses like Ouija Board and Miesque and Ridgewood Pearl were campaigned over there instead of over here because they weren't limited to our silly traditions.

We had a stretch here from 1982 to 1996 where the Met Mile was won by Conquistador Cielo, Gulch, Dixie Brass, Holy Bull, and Honour and Glory. Housebuster ran second. All 3yo's. But for some reason, running a good 3yo in the race has fallen out of favor and I don't understand why. A 3yo gets something like a 13 pound allowance from older horses on the scale. That's huge. If I had a horse like War Pass and he lost the Derby, I'd be headed right for the Met. Back in 2004, I very nearly went to my knees to beg this guy to run Lion Heart in the Met after he lost the Derby but they insisted on the Preakness. Damn traditions.

Honey Rider never raced against males.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Honey Rider never raced against males.

That would be incorrect.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That would be incorrect.

sorry i meant honey rYder. I was contradicting what he said but sarcasm doesnt go well with typing. maybe i should have used one of these

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

sorry i meant honey rYder. I was contradicting what he said but sarcasm doesnt go well with typing. maybe i should have used one of these

I assume you are talking about the Todd Pletcher horse.....and she raced twice against the boys last year.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

sorry i meant honey rYder. I was contradicting what he said but sarcasm doesnt go well with typing. maybe i should have used one of these

I don't get the need for the sarcasm. I didn't say that it NEVER happens. I said that I think more females could be successful if given the opportunities.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Linny

Happens all the time in South America. They do dirt to grass alot.

Jones felt that Hard Spun would have been a world class grass miler.

Hard Spun would of been a monster going a mile on the turf.
too bad the "sporting" sheiks didn't race him this year. I think they could have really increased his value as a stallion tenfold.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Hard Spun would of been a monster going a mile on the turf.
too bad the "sporting" sheiks didn't race him this year. I think they could have really increased his value as a stallion tenfold.

Or you could blame the people that sold him. But that isn't as popular a position to have.

[RolloTomasi]

Olympio took the 9f Hollywood Derby (on turf) in November and followed it up with a win in the Malibu (which was Grade 2 at the time) back in '91.

Congaree missed the Big Cap by a nose and won the Carter next out in '03.

Cat Thief won the BC Classic and just missed in a blanket finish in the '99 Malibu.

Affluent won the Queen Elizabeth 9f on turf and later won the La Brea. Not sure if she started in between. She also won the Santa Monica at 5, not sure her prior start, but she did win the Ramona 9f on turf the summer before.