Kidd to Mavs

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think you might have missed Ewings selection to the 50 greatest players of the NBA. He was nowhere near Malone, Hakeem, Robinson? Are you serious?

Not even close imo.
Baseline jumper.
Tough guy, good player but
way slow. Not even close...
If David Robinson had played in NY
he would have been the 2nd coming.
Duncan would now be the best of all time
if NY had won 4 titles with him.

Of course I was not allowed to vote on the top 50.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Not even close imo.
Baseline jumper.
Tough guy, good player but
way slow. Not even close...
If David Robinson had played in NY
he would have been the 2nd coming.
Duncan would now be the best of all time
if NY had won 4 titles with him.

Of course I was not allowed to vote on the top 50.

Ewing was too slow? Did you ever see him play in the NBA? Ewing was only the best defensive center of the modern era and he happened to show up and play hard every night and put in 25 and grab 12. You may favor others but to say that its not even close shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball.

[timmgirvan]

Not so fast,my friends! Deavon Georges' agent is holding up the deal...to be continued!

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Not so fast,my friends! Deavon Georges' agent is holding up the deal...to be continued!

Somehow I think Cuban makes this work.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ewing was too slow? Did you ever see him play in the NBA? Ewing was only the best defensive center of the modern era and he happened to show up and play hard every night and put in 25 and grab 12. You may favor others but to say that its not even close shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball.

Ewing was not even close to Robinson as a defender.
Ewing also got injured fairly early on and it severely limited
his mobility.
Better than Malone and Hakeem as a defender. Not as good as Duncan as
a defender. No San Antonio bias of course.

ANd I really do believe he is a clear cut below
Moses Malone, Hakeem, Robinson and currently Duncan.
And yes I saw them all play multiple times.

Im dead serious. I dont think he was as good.
He goal tended as much as any center I have seen
on some horrible shots. In college and in the pros.

I do agree he was very tough and always gave
full effort. If David Robinson had done the same...
no one would forget him. Just not as talented as the
guys I mention above. Ewing playing on a team in the
midsection of the country would not have made the
top 50 imo. One has to admit that where a player
plays has a big impact on the press a player gets.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ewing was too slow? Did you ever see him play in the NBA? Ewing was only the best defensive center of the modern era and he happened to show up and play hard every night and put in 25 and grab 12. You may favor others but to say that its not even close shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball.

I think you are a little bit off here. When Ewing came into the league, people thought he'd be a defensive star more than offensive. It was his offense that ended up surprising people but his rebounding numbers were often criticized because they weren't where people thought they should be. He also was not even close to being the best defensive center of his era. Better than Olajuwon or Robinson or Mutombo? Seriously?

Times voted as defensive player of the year:
Ewing-0
Robinson-1
Mutombo-4
Olajuwon-2

Times on the NBA all defensive team 1st/2nd:
Ewing-0/3
Robinson 4/4
Mutombo 3/3
Olajuwon-5/4

Times in the top five in blocks per game:
Ewing-5 times (0 times led the league)
Robinson-7 (1)
Mutombo-10 (5)
Olajuwon-12 (3)

Times in the top five in rebounds per game:
Ewing-4 (0 times led the league)
Robinson-5 (1)
Mutombo-9 (2)
Olajuwon-7 (2)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think you are a little bit off here. When Ewing came into the league, people thought he'd be a defensive star more than offensive. It was his offense that ended up surprising people but his rebounding numbers were often criticized because they weren't where people thought they should be. He also was not even close to being the best defensive center of his era. Better than Olajuwon or Robinson or Mutombo? Seriously?

Times voted as defensive player of the year:
Ewing-0
Robinson-1
Mutombo-4
Olajuwon-2

Times on the NBA all defensive team 1st/2nd:
Ewing-0/3
Robinson 4/4
Mutombo 3/3
Olajuwon-5/4

Times in the top five in blocks per game:
Ewing-5 times (0 times led the league)
Robinson-7 (1)
Mutombo-10 (5)
Olajuwon-12 (3)

Times in the top five in rebounds per game:
Ewing-4 (0 times led the league)
Robinson-5 (1)
Mutombo-9 (2)
Olajuwon-7 (2)

Rebounds are not a defensive stat. Ewing was the best post defender in the NBA during his 1st 7 or 8 years. There has always been a bias against this guy for whatever reason, including the writers who vote on those awards. He was a tremendous player who was easily as good defensively as any of those other guys. Olajuwan was more athletic but took lots of plays off. Mutombo was just long. He could never get further than 8 feet away from the basket without being a liability. Robinson was a great player and a nice guy but if you watched the NBA during the late 80's and early 90's and thought that he was a better all around defender than Ewing, you just didnt watch enough. There is more to defense at the center position than simple shots blocked.

Ewing is one of the best centers of all time. To say he is overrated is laughable.

Look how well the Knicks have done since he retired. That should speak volumes about his contribution to them and the game.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Ewing is one of the best centers of all time. To say he is overrated is laughable.

Look how well the Knicks have done since he retired. That should speak volumes about his contribution to them and the game.

OMG.
A bit of a time sequence skipped.

So of the guys mentioned:
Robinson
Moses Malone
Hakeem
Duncan

Which of these was Ewing better than?

And then of course we can add other centers
like Jabbar etc... Ewing is down the line.

So that short list doesn't make him one of the greatest of all time?
Duncan is a power forward.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Ewing is one of the best centers of all time. To say he is overrated is laughable.

Look how well the Knicks have done since he retired. That should speak volumes about his contribution to them and the game.

Laugh away then cause from what I've read in this thread the guy is more overrated than I'd ever imagined. Did you guys just watch Knicks games and never see Olajuwon? In every facet of the game Hakeem was better. Why were the Knicks always better when Ewing was hurt if he was so good?

[blackthroatedwind]

The Ewing hating is really unfortunate. The guy was great and played his ass off every night. This " the Knicks were better when he was hurt " crap is appalling and farcical. In his prime he was an absolute force and only in NY could anybody criticize him.

For twenty years I almost never missed a Knick game, many of them live at the Garden, and now for the past ten years I almost never watch.....and when I do it is to root for them, and their buffoonish leadership of Isaah Thomas and James Dolan, to lose. I only wish they had a player half as great as Patrick Ewing. At least then I could pity the poor victim of this Titanic.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cardus

You and others are missing the boat on Ewing. He is one of the greatest jump shooting centers of all time, and a fantastic defender.

For a bunch of years, he was the ONLY good thing about the Knicks. He had little help... until Jordan's Bulls got going, unfortunately.

Well apparently a bunch of people are completely missing the boat on Olajuwon.

PPG - Olajuwon leads 21.8 to 21.0
RPG - Olajuwon leads 11.1 to 9.8
BPG - Olajuwon leads 3.1 to 2.4
SPG - Olajuwon leads 1.7 to 1.0
APG - Olajuwon leads 2.5 to 1.9
FG% - Olajuwon leads .512 to .504
Olajuwon was won the MVP, the best Ewing did is 4th
Olajuwon has twice been defensive player of the year, Ewing never was
Olajuwon won rings, Ewing didn't

In no way, shape, or form was Ewing better than or even as good as Olajuwon.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Rebounds are not a defensive stat. Ewing was the best post defender in the NBA during his 1st 7 or 8 years. There has always been a bias against this guy for whatever reason, including the writers who vote on those awards. He was a tremendous player who was easily as good defensively as any of those other guys. Olajuwan was more athletic but took lots of plays off. Mutombo was just long. He could never get further than 8 feet away from the basket without being a liability. Robinson was a great player and a nice guy but if you watched the NBA during the late 80's and early 90's and thought that he was a better all around defender than Ewing, you just didnt watch enough. There is more to defense at the center position than simple shots blocked.

Yep.
People did not watch enough Robinson.
He was not on TV consistently.
Ewing was always on TV in college
and then everyone followed in the pros.
Robinson was unknown in college until his
senior season. Got very little press.

He is remembered mostly for being torched
by Hakeem in the playoffs. Robinson was a good
on the ball and off the ball defender. Tons better
than Ewing.

Ewing played for the Knicks. The Knicks are in NY.
A very good player but overrated.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Yep.
People did not watch enough Robinson.
He was not on TV consistently.
Ewing was always on TV in college
and then everyone followed in the pros.
Robinson was unknown in college until his
senior season. Got very little press.

He is remembered mostly for being torched
by Hakeem in the playoffs. Robinson was a good
on the ball and off the ball defender. Tons better
than Ewing.

Ewing played for the Knicks. The Knicks are in NY.
A very good player but overrated.

Ewing was and is actually underrated, not overrated. He could never do enough to satisfy fans and writers as is obvious by your comments. As I said before you may believe that one or two of those other centers are better than him which is very much a possibility. But to say that he is not even in the same class as them is laughable. There were 3 dominant centers during this time frame and Ewing stacks up very nicely against both guys. The expectation level for him was higher than any player during that era. He HAD to be dominant because everybody expected that from him from the time he was a college freshman. Hakeem was considered 2nd fiddle on his own team coming into the NBA and Robinson was kind of a freakshow playing for the Navy. Ewing's teams never won a championship in the NBA but using championships to compare players is folly because of the differences in teammates and coaches. He was not only the offensive cornerstone of the Knicks but was THE key on defense which was the strong suit of the Knicks during that time period. If you watched at all you would know the only reason that they were able to compete at the highest level was because of defense (and thuggery) and Ewing.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Defining players in team sports by their "rings" has reached an epedemic level. It's simple-minded.

Basketball is the only sport where it is even remotely possible since one player can have a huge impact. It is amazing though that it is worst in the NFL where players only play on one side of the ball and even on that side of the ball are one of 11 players who must execute for a play to work.