Curlin and Pyro

King Glorious · #1 01-30-2008, 01:49 PM

So because I don't feel the need to post all of my wagers (winners and losers alike) means that I have no success at it or less than someone else? Ok. But DaHoss' comments weren't about wagering success. It was about analyzing talent. I ask again to tell me what my record is that is so bad and tell me what about other people's records is so good? We all see some horses and think they'll be good and they turn out bad. Or some we think will be bad that turn out good. Before DaHoss wants to tell me how bad my record is, tell me how good his is. That's all I ask.

blackthroatedwind · #2 01-30-2008, 01:52 PM

DaHoss has one of the better opinions around.

Your opinion is outrageous and rarely right. You're enthusiastic and enjoyable to banter with but my experience is that you are virtually never right.

I have watched DaHoss have one outstanding opinion after another over the last year, many of which resulted in agonizingly tough beats, and recently he seemed to recover from all his random bad luck in the blink of an eye. I would back his opinion over anyone else's on this board.

We're bettors. We play every day. DaHoss knows his stuff. Of that I have absolutely no doubt.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #3 01-30-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

DaHoss has one of the better opinions around.

Your opinion is outrageous and rarely right. You're enthusiastic and enjoyable to banter with but my experience is that you are virtually never right.

I have watched DaHoss have one outstanding opinion after another over the last year, many of which resulted in agonizingly tough beats, and recently he seemed to recover from all his random bad luck in the blink of an eye. I would back his opinion over anyone else's on this board.

We're bettors. We play every day. DaHoss knows his stuff. Of that I have absolutely no doubt.

bingo........

#4 01-30-2008, 02:20 PM

Uh..

I'm still the best handicapper evar....

right guys?

The Indomitable DrugS · #5 01-30-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Ok. But DaHoss' comments weren't about wagering success. It was about analyzing talent. I ask again to tell me what my record is that is so bad.

You need only look at your own Signature - and who you rank as the best horse to race in the last 22 years as a start....

King Glorious · #6 01-30-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You need only look at your own Signature - and who you rank as the best horse to race in the last 22 years as a start....

Good point.

King Glorious · #7 01-30-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You need only look at your own Signature - and who you rank as the best horse to race in the last 22 years as a start....

King Glorious-ran 7f in 1:21 1/5, which the DRF printed at the time was equal to the second fastest 7f ever run by a 3yo. Was a grade one winner of the Hollywood Futurity and the Haskell. Finished 8 for 9 in his brief career. Maybe he wouldn't have beaten Easy Goer and Sunday Silence that year but his former rider, hall of famer Chris McCarron, who rode Sunday Silence also, once said that it was his opinion (and I think he knows a little something about horses) that up to a mile, EG and SS wouldn't have been able to catch KG. I know a mile is not the classic distance but it's still meaningful. If KG was as good as they were up to a mile, according to McCarron, that's enough for me to believe that my belief in his ability is not totally unfounded.

Java Gold-won the Whitney, Travers, and Marlboro Cup and was 1/9 to win the JCGC, before being upset. He almost undoubtedbly would have been named HOY had he won that race, having already beaten Alysheba and Bet Twice in the Travers. Yeah, I know, sloppy track. BTW has pointed out that his other major wins also came on wet tracks. But in wins against Broad Brush (who had already beaten that year's HOY Ferdinand) and Gulch (Met Mile, Wood, Gotham) and Polish Navy (Woodward), he had shown that he was a legit horse. Mack Miller called him his best horse ever and he had some good ones.

Lammtarra-won the Epsom Derby in his second career start, off a seven-month layoff, setting a track record in the process. Came back to beat older in the King George and then the Arc to retire 4 of 4. If an American horse were to do the equivalent, win a maiden sprint in October then come back in May to set a track record in the Derby, followed by wins in the Hollywood Gold Cup and BC Classic, he would be hailed as Pegasus.

Smarty Jones-Bobby Frankel, another who's been around a few good horses in his lifetime, said that Smarty was right up there with horses like Bid and other greats. He also got endorsements from guys like Gary Stevens and Jerry Bailey. Or are we all just way out in left field?

Go for Wand-Any horse that can run 7f in 1:21 flat then come back in nine days and run 10f in 2:00 4/5 is a special horse. Do you know that in the history of Saratoga, only General Assembly (2:00), Honest Pleasure (2:00 1/5) have gone faster (Easy Goer and Thunder Rumble did equal it)? Then to top that off, she came back to win a 9f race at Belmont in 1:45 4/5, only 2/5 off of Secretariat's track record. Before falling down, she was nose and nose with Bayakoa in the stretch of the BC Distaff (I thought she was going to win). Bayakoa is arguably the best distaffer in the past 20 years and almost without a doubt would be in everyone's top 3-5. Go for Wand did all of this as a 3yo filly.

Maybe you are right though. Maybe I am horrible at analyzing talent. But if guys like McCarron, Miller, Frankel, Bailey, and Stevens agree with me on some of this stuff, I'm proud to be horrible.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #8 01-30-2008, 04:26 PM

all i want to know is where is the pine island memorial.. and damit if wonder lady ann l isnt at the top of my where are they now list.....

brianwspencer · #9 01-30-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Maybe you are right though. Maybe I am horrible at analyzing talent. But if guys like McCarron, Miller, Frankel, Bailey, and Stevens agree with me on some of this stuff, I'm proud to be horrible.

I would like to own Pyro, even though he's a rat.

King Glorious · #10 01-30-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I would like to own Pyro, even though he's a rat.

Surprised it took four pages to get this post. Thought it would come immediately.

#11 01-30-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Surprised it took four pages to get this post. Thought it would come immediately.

It's like nails on a chalkboard.

brianwspencer · #12 01-30-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Surprised it took four pages to get this post. Thought it would come immediately.

Give me some credit.

I could never have done it were it not for your equally ridiculous post using the same lines of thinking prior to mine.

pmayjr · #13 01-30-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Give me some credit.

I could never have done it were it not for your equally ridiculous post using the same lines of thinking prior to mine.

C'mon B-dub... If you get the job done in Vegas last weekend you coulda bought a 5% share in him... So in the end, it's your own damn fault lol.

The Indomitable DrugS · #14 01-30-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Maybe he wouldn't have beaten Easy Goer and Sunday Silence that year but his former rider, hall of famer Chris McCarron, who rode Sunday Silence also, once said that it was his opinion (and I think he knows a little something about horses) that up to a mile, EG and SS wouldn't have been able to catch KG. I know a mile is not the classic distance but it's still meaningful. If KG was as good as they were up to a mile, according to McCarron, that's enough for me to believe that my belief in his ability is not totally unfounded.

Let me make sure I'm getting this right...

You are primarily basing your argument for King Glorious being the best horse to race in the last 22 years because Chris McCarron (a jockey!) said he felt Easy Goer or Sunday Silence might not catch him at distances up to a mile??

Wow.

Look, i've seen film of many King Glorious races - he was an excellent talent for sure and was probably a lot better than most people (besides you obviously) think he was.

However, he was simply not the best horse to race in the last 22 years.

King Glorious · #15 01-30-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Let me make sure I'm getting this right...

You are primarily basing your argument for King Glorious being the best horse to race in the last 22 years because Chris McCarron (a jockey!) said he felt Easy Goer or Sunday Silence might not catch him at distances up to a mile??

Wow.

Look, i've seen film of many King Glorious races - he was an excellent talent for sure and was probably a lot better than most people (besides you obviously) think he was.

However, he was simply not the best horse to race in the last 22 years.

Not at all. I used McCarron's comments as a basis for saying that the belief in how good he was is not totally off the wall if someone that has ridden him and another horse (SS) that if I had listed him #1, nobody would say anything, is somewhat in agreement with it.

Cannon Shell · #16 01-30-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Not at all. I used McCarron's comments as a basis for saying that the belief in how good he was is not totally off the wall if someone that has ridden him and another horse (SS) that if I had listed him #1, nobody would say anything, is somewhat in agreement with it.

Jockeys are terrible handicappers.