My Prediction for Santa Anita

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Nobody is debating the kickback at Santa Anita. There are rocks in the track. That is why the jocks are wearing the protective masks. The jocks say that at Santa Anita it feels like they are in a sand storm right now. It's really bad.

There is definitely a problem at Santa Anita. There is no doubt about that. The only point that ArlJim and myself are trying to make is that in general there is much less of an issue with kickback on synthetic tracks as compared to regular dirt.

One issue that could be a concern with synthetic tracks is the long term health risks of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers. The chances are that most come-from-behind horses are going to swallow some dirt whether they are on a synthetic track or a natural track. I can't tell you what the long-term health consequences are of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers but it seems like it certainly could not be good.

I would not worry about that a bit. Pass right through. I would be much more worried about swallowing dirt.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I would not worry about that a bit. Pass right through. I would be much more worried about swallowing dirt.

not necessarily.
they caution you about feeding hay from the ground, especially if you have particularly sandy soil, as a horse can injest a fair amount of sand over time and develop sand colic.
i also read about a horse who was a cribber-they had used belts as fencing material, and the horse damn near died. they removed an almost soccer-ball sized ball of rubber from his gut-it didn't pass thru, but kept getting larger the more he nibbled.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not necessarily.
they caution you about feeding hay from the ground, especially if you have particularly sandy soil, as a horse can injest a fair amount of sand over time and develop sand colic.
i also read about a horse who was a cribber-they had used belts as fencing material, and the horse damn near died. they removed an almost soccer-ball sized ball of rubber from his gut-it didn't pass thru, but kept getting larger the more he nibbled.

Horses cannot breath through their mouths, so I doubt much is getting in through the mouth and then swallowed during or just after a race, as the epiglottis is closed down over the esophagus so the horse can breath. So ingestion isn't anything I'd worry about, be it synthetic, turf or dirt.

Nostrils are a concern, obviously. Vets routinely find alot of dirt in the trachea and larger bronchi after races, but particles of any composition (dirt, smog, AWT, dust, whatever) have to be very, very tiny (there is a particular micron size) to get further down the airways than the "supply tubes".

From the little available that I have read vets are seeing less mucus post-race days on the synthetics vs dirt (mucus is the body bringing irritants up and out of the larger airways), and less stuff in the larger airways. Maybe Chuck can comment on what his track vets have seen.

Obviously any dry, powdery surface (think dust) is a greater threat for stuff getting deeper into the lungs than a damper, heavier, larger particle (which gets caught upon inhalation in the sinuses and upper airways as it should be).

Sand isn't going to go very far generally, it's a big particle as far as the airways are concerned.

I, too, would be more worried about the dried manure, organic matter, fungal spores, etc in dirt than in a synthetic, if inhaled deeply.

I removed an intact set of pantyhose from a Labrador's stomach and intestine once

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Mumtaz

Horses cannot breath through their mouths, so I doubt much is getting in through the mouth and then swallowed during or just after a race, as the epiglottis is closed down over the esophagus so the horse can breath. So ingestion isn't anything I'd worry about, be it synthetic, turf or dirt.

Nostrils are a concern, obviously. Vets routinely find alot of dirt in the trachea and larger bronchi after races, but particles of any composition (dirt, smog, AWT, dust, whatever) have to be very, very tiny (there is a particular micron size) to get further down the airways than the "supply tubes".

From the little available that I have read vets are seeing less mucus post-race days on the synthetics vs dirt (mucus is the body bringing irritants up and out of the larger airways), and less stuff in the larger airways. Maybe Chuck can comment on what his track vets have seen.

Obviously any dry, powdery surface (think dust) is a greater threat for stuff getting deeper into the lungs than a damper, heavier, larger particle (which gets caught upon inhalation in the sinuses and upper airways as it should be).

Sand isn't going to go very far generally, it's a big particle as far as the airways are concerned.

I, too, would be more worried about the dried manure, organic matter, fungal spores, etc in dirt than in a synthetic, if inhaled deeply.

I removed an intact set of pantyhose from a Labrador's stomach and intestine once

yeah, no doubt the lungs would be a larger concern when actually racing-my part about ingestion was in regard to pg talking about swallowing dirt.
hopefully they won't find any health issues down the road due to the track--of course all that smog in cali hasn't hurt them, so maybe they're pretty resilient!!

[The Bid]

Oh they will find something in time. These morons didnt have the sense to test any of this **** prior to installation. We just decided to wing it, good idea. Idiots

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, no doubt the lungs would be a larger concern when actually racing-my part about ingestion was in regard to pg talking about swallowing dirt.
hopefully they won't find any health issues down the road due to the track--of course all that smog in cali hasn't hurt them, so maybe they're pretty resilient!!

Since you mentioned cribbing Z.
I figured out a really neat thing
that works down here in the barn
my wife has her horse.

If you do own a horse, or ever own one
I got something that really works well
that would probably work all year in warmer
weather areas. On Rubber, wood, whatever.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, no doubt the lungs would be a larger concern when actually racing-my part about ingestion was in regard to pg talking about swallowing dirt.
hopefully they won't find any health issues down the road due to the track--of course all that smog in cali hasn't hurt them, so maybe they're pretty resilient!!

Air Quality Index

Dallas Texas 30AQI

New York, N.Y. 45AQI

L.A. California 31AQI

Little Rock, Arkansas 'Well I can tell you it's real clear today so I guess the # would be 15, yes today is the 15th.

The air in L.A. is better than you think.

Originally Posted by Danzig

not necessarily.
they caution you about feeding hay from the ground, especially if you have particularly sandy soil, as a horse can injest a fair amount of sand over time and develop sand colic.
i also read about a horse who was a cribber-they had used belts as fencing material, and the horse damn near died. they removed an almost soccer-ball sized ball of rubber from his gut-it didn't pass thru, but kept getting larger the more he nibbled.

Watch when a horse eats.
They grab with the big rubbery lips
and they pull. Sometimes just grass tears off.
But some of the time some of the grass with roots
also comes up. All kinds of crud hang on the roots.

Horses take in all sorts of crud.
And they colic more often when supplemented
with the very high calorie stuff, too much grain and
sweet crap.