Funny, Considering the Number of Entries I Thought He Retired Years Ago

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Coming from someone who used welfare and jumps trainer in the same post I'll take that as a compliment.

Ahhh ... so you think jumping horses is cruel?

Originally Posted by Riot

Ahhh ... so you think jumping horses is cruel?

I have a problem with you speaking for Dickinson. His first priority is the welfare of his horses? Really? Let's be honest with ourselves...if his first priority was the welfare of horses he wouldn't be in a business where they are put at risk.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Let's be honest with ourselves...if his first priority was the welfare of horses he wouldn't be in a business where they are put at risk.

Tough to argue with this.

Dickinson's first priority is to make money. There is nothing wrong with this. However, this is the important point that seems to be being glossed over. Mr. Dickinson can, does, and will make a great deal of money from the proliferation of synthetic surfaces. His second priority is to enable his first priority to be successful.

The overall welfare of horses is way down the actual list of his priorities.

[Riot]

Dickinson's first priority is to make money. There is nothing wrong with this. However, this is the important point that seems to be being glossed over. Mr. Dickinson can, does, and will make a great deal of money from the proliferation of synthetic surfaces. His second priority is to enable his first priority to be successful.

The overall welfare of horses is way down the actual list of his priorities.

So you maintain Dickinson's initial development of Tapeta over the years was not initiated nor based upon his concern for track conditions that horses would be racing over, that it was simply his getting on the bandwagon years ago, with the realization that someday tracks would want synthetic surfaces, and he would then be in a position to profit from that?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you maintain Dickinson's initial development of Tapeta over the years was not initiated nor based upon his concern for track conditions that horses would be racing over, that it was simply his getting on the bandwagon years ago, with the realization that someday tracks would want synthetic surfaces, and he would then be in a position to profit from that?

I think they may go hand in hand.

Frankly, a great deal of things were said about synthetic surfaces when they were introduced to racing that have been proven to be completely untrue. And, this is in just the first couple of years.

If the Tapeta surface was so kind to horses how come Mr. Dickinson's horses make less starts overall than any other trainer's horses on the entire planet?

[Riot]

Frankly, a great deal of things were said about synthetic surfaces when they were introduced to racing that have been proven to be completely untrue. And, this is in just the first couple of years.

First, I think that one has to separate out the rumored promises and public discussion of synthetic surfaces ("they said no injuries, but a horse broke down and died", etc) with what the manufacturer's have actually maintained about them. Those opinions and statements we read are rarely one and the same.

Additionally I think it's important not to forget that synthetic surfaces were all developed based upon the physics we know about what can contribute to injury in the racehorse, in an attempt to mitigate those factors we can control.

As an aside, Dickinson is the only trainer I have ever seen that has made the following type of blanket statement (this is on his web site, referencing the Tapeta surface he uses on his farm):

"Dickinson is so confident of the surface that if a horse has a chip, fracture, or quarter crack while in training at Tapeta (TM) Farm, he will pay for the surgery to be done at the University of Pennsylvania New Bolton Center."

I've never seen any trainer, no matter where he is training, make a statement even remotely like that about the horses in his care.

If the Tapeta surface was so kind to horses how come Mr. Dickinson's horses make less starts overall than any other trainer's horses on the entire planet?

I haven't a clue. Are the horses not starting due to injury?

[blackthroatedwind]

Actually, probably the biggest fabrication told about synthetic surfaces was that they would be maintenance free. That has proven to be completely false.

As for why Dickinson's horses don't race......I have no idea. I just use the facts....and the facts are that his horses rarely, if ever, race. It hardly seems like a stretch to at least accept the possibility that Tapeta has not added to their physical welfare.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think they may go hand in hand.

Frankly, a great deal of things were said about synthetic surfaces when they were introduced to racing that have been proven to be completely untrue. And, this is in just the first couple of years.

If the Tapeta surface was so kind to horses how come [B]Mr. Dickinson's horses make less starts overall than any other trainer's horses on the entire planet?

even more than mr frankel?

[Riot]

I have a problem with you speaking for Dickinson.

I obviously didn't speak for Dickinson. I most obviously spoke my own opinion, based upon my own observations, when I said, "I've .... "

His first priority is the welfare of his horses? Really? Let's be honest with ourselves...if his first priority was the welfare of horses he wouldn't be in a business where they are put at risk.

I asked you if you thought jumping horses was cruel. You haven't answered directly. Do you think so, or not? Your reply above is confusing: do you think racing horses (not over jumps) is cruel, or not?

Originally Posted by Riot

I obviously didn't speak for Dickinson. I most obviously spoke my own opinion, based upon my own observations, when I said, "I've .... "



I asked you if you thought jumping horses was cruel. You haven't answered directly. Do you think so, or not? Your reply above is confusing: do you think racing horses (not over jumps) is cruel, or not?

Yes it can be a cruel sport. Please tell me otherwise. I need a good laugh today.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yes it can be a cruel sport. Please tell me otherwise. I need a good laugh today.

Yes, jump racing can be a cruel sport, as can flat racing, as can barrel racing or riding horses over jumps in a show ring.

But either flat or jump racing (or other horse sports) can also not be "cruel" to the horse at all, unless one believes the essential nature of any horse sport - that being man utilizing the horse within them - is cruel by definition.

That's the PETA viewpoint, btw.

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, jump racing can be a cruel sport, as can flat racing, as can barrel racing or riding horses over jumps in a show ring.

But either flat or jump racing (or other horse sports) can also not be "cruel" to the horse at all, unless one believes the essential nature of any horse sport - that being man utilizing the horse within them - is cruel by definition.

That's the PETA viewpoint, btw.

PETA's viewpoint goes deeper than that. They want the sport banned.

I don't want it banned. I just want people to stop trying to pretty the sport up as something it's not. Just be real and accept the fact that you enjoy a sport that can be cruel to an animal. It doesn't make you evil, it makes you human.

[Riot]

PETA's viewpoint goes deeper than that. They want the sport banned.

PETA wants no animals to be "owned" by humans. I have spent much money and many hours fighting PETA and their ilk.

I don't want it banned. I just want people to stop trying to pretty the sport up as something it's not.

Please point out where I tried to "pretty the sport up as something it's not"?

By simply saying I admired a jumps trainer for his publically stated views on the care of the horse?

Which caused you to say I supported the PETA viewpoint?

Fine. I like jump racing, you do not.

Just be real and accept the fact that you enjoy a sport that can be cruel to an animal. It doesn't make you evil, it makes you human.

Where have I said I don't think the sport can be cruel to an animal? In fact, I just said the opposite.

Really, Pillow, if you want to start a debate, the accepted premise is to disagree with something somebody has actually said.

[freddymo]

Yes Dickinson is making big money on Synthetic surfaces. Make no mistake he is devoted to horses and there welfare

[Cajungator26]

Concerning the dangers of jumping horses:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/servi...,3218960.story

How sad.