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#21
10-29-2007, 03:16 PM
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Pletcher winning one race is not a good day as per the standards that he set, especially when he had 2 possibiles for horse of the year run way off the board. Sure it might be a great day for a smaller trainer but I'm sure he is not really that thrilled over it. 
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#22
10-29-2007, 03:23 PM
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#23
10-29-2007, 03:33 PM
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As for Nobiz vs Excellent Art, the Louisville Courier comments were "He's a good or fast ground horse," said Aidan O'Brien, who trains Excellent Art. "He was drawn outside (post 13), so he had to let the race unfold, but he was closing, closing, closing at the end." Nobiz Like Shobiz made a strong bid at the top of the stretch but flattened out to finish fourth. Excellent Art's trip cost him the win. The trip Nobiz had was better than the trip the 5th and 6th place finishers had and they nearly caught him The fact is Nobiz might not have liked an off track and ran a decent race but the betting public making him 2nd choice and the amount of hype around the horse is insanity.
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#25
10-29-2007, 04:12 PM
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#27
10-29-2007, 04:53 PM
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Nobiz didn't embarass himself. For a 9 or 10 furlong horse who is more of a great animal with versatility than a true top class turf animal, he really did well against some top class turf older horse milers.
Pletcher had at least English Channel and Honey Rider run big races (without looking over the charts). Lawyer Ron was a Grade 2 horse that couldn't finish a race before Pletcher pumped him up. Lawyer Ron had some of the best 4yo races this summer. It would have been a little funky to see Lawyer Ron win the classic but Pletcher actually made that horse into something you would have to consider as one of the five win contenders. Any Given Saturday was naturally a 8.5 furlong horse. He happened to peak around the same time as Lawyer Ron this year and won an 8.5 and 9 furlong race in some of the best performances of the year for a 3yo horse. Again it would have been funky if this guy won the classic off a trainer move up , but he was one of the 5 contenders. They actually parlayed his Distorte Humor x AP Indy pedigree combined with the trainer/vet move-up for a hugely inflated sale! It was a Super year from Pletcher in that regard.
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#28
10-29-2007, 04:55 PM
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true. and this was even with the linesmaker stubbornly setting opening him @ 8-1 ! If he went by the public and started him at 3-1 in the program , he may have gone off at 3-1. edit - most distinguished was pretty bad as well - i forget where he went off. Nashobas key had her work cut out with the soft.. who else? discreet cat(friday), Helsinki! (no way in the slop) ... come to think of it, should have made a lot more money than we did.
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#29
10-29-2007, 05:00 PM
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i must have been on the evil twin board all this time, as i don't remember any cheerleading for pletcher posts. as for posts about nobiz, the horse didn't win, or win anyone a bet unless they included him in a winning super. i could be wrong, but i don't often see a lot of praise for a horse who doesn't win, or show much in a narrow defeat. nobiz apparently ran his usual race, which against top competition isn't quite enough.
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#30
10-30-2007, 05:48 AM
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#31
10-30-2007, 06:57 AM
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It's funny how publicity or public expectations of a horse can skew your own opinion.. Personally, I didn't care for the dirt incantation of Nobiz Like Shobiz at all during the Derby Trail, but have come to really like him now. I thought he ran very credibly Saturday and as mentioned elsewhere, talked with Tagg waiting for Velazquez to come back with the colt. He wasn't happy with the wide run and swing out on the turn by JV, but seemed please with the horse's effort and progress overall. He also speculated that Nobiz is going to continue to improve saying, "He's got a lot more to do yet."
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984. Last edited by Kasept : 10-30-2007 at 07:27 AM.
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#32
10-30-2007, 07:11 AM
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to imply that he is slow though is hard to understand. if NoBiz-like speed is the threshold below which all horses are slow, then 99.9% of all horses are slow. somehow i am missing all the hype on this horse that you keep referring to. to me an article or statement in bloodhorse does not constitute excessive hype.
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#33
10-30-2007, 07:12 AM
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#34
10-30-2007, 10:58 PM
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I don't think Tagg's horse embarrased himself at all. All things considered, I thought he raced good. Tired, flattened out, etc. -- yeah, sure, all a byproduct of the trip, track, pace, and so on. If you didn't like the horse, you have one slant. If you did, you have another. OK.
I thought the horse had potential earlier in the year, Derby trail. However, after he didn't progress, move forward, etc. I figured he was what he was. I do think they reinvented the horse to an extent in heading to the weeds with him, and there I think he moved forward significantly. I was never a big fan, but I am glad he's coming back next year. Eric
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#35
10-31-2007, 04:38 AM
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Albertus Maximus $193,370 Royal Right $174,329 Dr. Einstein $135,538 My Great Love $116,270 Motion $114,355 Always Albert $96,060 Topside Trader $88,445 Great Bridge $76,975 Almagnus $76,930 Year Wins Earned 2005 16 $271,123 2006 75 $1,659,474 *Totals 91 $1,930,597 add for 2007 so far 35 winners from 59 starters, earnings of $2,334,223 His oldest foals are 4, far too early to dismiss a sire as useless. They don't sell particularly well for some reason, but it isn't because they can't run. He hasn't had super-sized crops - 67 in '03, 51 in '04, 61 in '05 (current 2yos) - and in general they aren't ready at 2, Nobiz being the exception. If I were a breed-to-race breeder, I'd consider him a bargain at $7,500.
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#36
10-31-2007, 11:15 AM
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#37
10-31-2007, 11:17 AM
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#38
11-02-2007, 02:27 PM
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Perspective is a good word here. Take the New York Yankees, for example. There are 30 teams in the major leagues and only eight of them make the playoffs. I believe it's been 12 consecutive seasons that the Yankees have been one of those eight. They've won four championships in that span. However, they've not won the championship since 2000 and haven't even been to the World Series since 2003. Now, I'm sure that the fans of the Pirates, Brewers, Royals, Devil Rays, Rangers, Mariners, etc., would LOVE to trade places with the Yankees. These teams can't even get into the playoffs. The Yankees get there every year and fire their manager because they have just had another disappointing season. There are different expectations for different people. There is a term that goes well here; to whom much is given, much is expected. In the case of Pletcher, there is no doubt that he expects more. He's given a much better hand to start than 99% of his competition. I know that last year, he didn't win any races but his stable came away with over $2 million in earnings and he won another national earnings title and broke the record. May have earned the Eclipse last year too but I don't remember. He himself admitted though that it was a disappointing day for him in the BC last year. I suppose that because he actually won one of the races this year, it was better for him but he still didn't reach the expectations that were set for him, either by the public or by himself. To see those arguing on his behalf that he had a successful day is kind of funny when if u ask him, he'd tell u he is disappointed.
As for Nobiz, let's understand something. I don't think that anyone has called him any kind of world beater. I was never a fan of his and still won't say that I am. But he's a horse that was among the best of his generation as a 2yo and throughout the first half of his 3yo season. This was on the dirt. He won a grade one and won or placed in several other graded races. Sure, he's not at the level of Curlin, Street Sense, Hard Spun and maybe Any Given Saturday. But after those four, there is not another 3yo that I'd take over him. Then he switched to grass and ran some very big races. He didn't win the Mile but he lost by only about two lengths to Kip Deville and Excellent Art and both of those horses are world class runners. There is absolutely no shame in that. What I think that some people fail to realize is that today's runners just aren't as good as they have been in the past decades. The top dirt Beyer in a route this year was 119, reached by two horses. We've gotten used to seeing Candy Ride go 124, Pleasantly Perfect reach the 120 mark a few times. Ghostzapper made 120+ seem routine. The list includes several others. So what we have to realize is that the bar is being lowered each year. If none of these top 3yo's come back next year, we could see an even more pathetic group of older horses, where the winners of races like the SA Hcp, JCGC, Woodward, etc, can barely reach the 110 level. But there is something to remember. Each year, we are going to have a group of horses. Either it's going to be a good group or it's going to be a bad one. Either way, there will be a best of that group. I think that anyone that can't recognize that Nobiz is among the best of his group decided that a long time ago and doesn't want to admit they are wrong.
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The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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