How would The Classic have been...

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Well - I met Steve Asmussen up here this September - and he seemed to enjoy talking with me...so much so that our conversation carried for over ten minutes and he wasn't even the one who ended it.

So, while he might be a convicted cheater...... he's nice to DrugS. And honestly, isn't that what really matters when judging someone anyway?

In all seriousness - Curlin ran a MONSTER debut race at Gulfstream for a trainer who no one has ever accused of taking advantages. He was all over the racetrack - and his adjusted final time in that maiden victory was faster than seasoned stake horses Nobiz Like Shobiz and Scat Daddy ran in a stake race on the same card.

I think Curlin is a spectacular horse who would have been fine for any competent trainer. I have no problem rooting for him. He isn't a horse who made some hard to explain move-up when switched to a "super trainer" - like a certain 2005 Horse of the Year was.

Why the coyish slam on Dutrow? Why not say it straight up? Go on and say there's no way he could improve a horse trained by Reinstedler and that the horse was busy training himself the first 3/4 of the year when he was winless.

What exactly do you think Dutrow did to the horse to improve him?

While you're at it, fill me in on how he kept moving Kip Deville up and won a half dozen G1s with Silver Train, ok?

Dutrow's got 3 wins from 6 total Breeders Cup starters.

Maybe you should go interview him?

Most important, why in the world would you be the one to cut short time spent with the trainer of the HOTY? If you had a date with Rosemary, Jr., that's one thing. Anything else, ....

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Why the coyish slam on Dutrow?

The '05 and soon to be named '07 Horse of the Year both were trained by guys who served fairly lengthy suspensions during their championship season.

In my opinion - Saint Liam (rest in peace) was a horse who wouldn't have been near as dominant for most competent trainers. I believe Curlin, on the other hand, would be.

Dutrow is the best move-up artist at the top level the East has to offer.

If you remember out West - some red-hot Turf Paradice trainer named Jeff Mullins ran a very troubled and narrowly beaten 3rd at big odds with a horse named Lusty Latin in the '02 Santa Anita Derby.

Mullins proceeded to win each of the next three Santa Anita Derby's with crazy longshots.

I'm personally skeptical of how accomplished some of these horses would have been in the hands of competent trainers who aren't move-up artists.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The '05 and soon to be named '07 Horse of the Year both were trained by guys who served fairly lengthy suspensions during their championship season.

In my opinion - Saint Liam (rest in peace) was a horse who wouldn't have been near as dominant for most competent trainers. I believe Curlin, on the other hand, would be.

Dutrow is the best move-up artist at the top level the East has to offer.

If you remember out West - some red-hot Turf Paradice trainer named Jeff Mullins ran a very troubled and narrowly beaten 3rd at big odds with a horse named Lusty Latin in the '02 Santa Anita Derby.

Mullins proceeded to win each of the next three Santa Anita Derby's with crazy longshots.

I'm personally skeptical of how accomplished some of these horses would have been in the hands of competent trainers who aren't move-up artists.

Just to add, Lusty Latin ended up running for cheap tags for every Juice guy in the mid atlantic.

[cmorioles]

Invasor would not have beaten Curlin.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Invasor would not have beaten Curlin.

Really? How do you know?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Really? How do you know?

Of course I don't know, it is an opinion. But the numbers rarely lie, and Curlin has been consistently faster than Invasor.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Of course I don't know, it is an opinion. But the numbers rarely lie, and Curlin has been consistently faster than Invasor.

Numbers lie all the time...look at lawyer ron.

Wasnt bernardini consistently faster as well?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Invasor would not have beaten Curlin.

I would have loved to see it. I think in the Dubai World Cup Invasor would have had at least a 119 Beyer if they produced figures so he was certainly capable of going that fast. Also, no one ever looked Invasor in the eye in the stretch and then beat him which we have seen happen to Curlin.

[GenuineRisk]

I can't help but wish the legal issues don't resolve soon- the longer they take to resolve, the longer Curlin will keep running, I hope!

[Thunder Gulch]

I think Bernardini was the same as Curlin and Invasor waxed him. Actually, Bernardini was more dominant through the summer than Curlin by a wide margin.

[SOREHOOF]

Actually, Bernardini was more dominant through the summer than Curlin by a wide margin.[/quote]
Curlin faced tougher horses than Bernardini. Curlin is no INVASOR though. If he races next year we'll see how he stacks up.

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I think Bernardini was the same as Curlin and Invasor waxed him. Actually, Bernardini was more dominant through the summer than Curlin by a wide margin.

Bernardini did not even run in the Derby.
And he was had a very diff. running style compared to Curlin.
Curlin and Invasor ran the same type of race.
Bernardini did not face any horse as good as Street Sense
or Rags in his TC races.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Bernardini did not face any horse as good as Street Sense
or Rags in his TC races.

Bernardini only ran in one triple crown race....

And Invasor might have faced better horses than Street Sense in Uruguay.



.... My bad, no sense baiting ARyan since he's surely fixated on a lame Red Sox game.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I think Bernardini was the same as Curlin and Invasor waxed him. Actually, Bernardini was more dominant through the summer than Curlin by a wide margin.

Curlin's performance in the BC Classic was obviously better than Bernardini's.

This isn't about who is better than who - Invasor only beat a hanging Sun King by a head in the Whitney when he had difficult circumstances.

With any kind of circumstances he would have needed a career best race to beat Curlin yesterday.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Curlin's performance in the BC Classic was obviously better than Bernardini's.

This isn't about who is better than who - Invasor only beat a hanging Sun King by a head in the Whitney when he had difficult circumstances.

With any kind of circumstances he would have needed a career best race to beat Curlin yesterday.

or vice versa

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I can't help but wish the legal issues don't resolve soon- the longer they take to resolve, the longer Curlin will keep running, I hope!

That's the way I feel, too. I had no trouble rooting for Curlin once it got down to Curlin, Street Sense, and Hard Spun. With the latter two definitely ending their careers prematurely, give me the one who at least MIGHT be around next year.

I will say this for Asmussen--he was very gracious toward Helen Pitts in his ESPN post-race interview.

--Dunbar

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Just to add, Lusty Latin ended up running for cheap tags for every Juice guy in the mid atlantic.

Hey, Lusty Latin won stakes races at 5 and 6 in MD. And anybody who remembers that SA Derby knows that his third was what Harvey Pack calls 'a suck-up third' or the TVG guys call 'garbage collecting'. The front-runners were walking to the line and he kept on at his one pace and passed a few of them. Nothing more than that.