Who will be burning money?

brianwspencer · #1 10-26-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

Can i just ask......

English Channel and Better Talk Now, i know they are two of your best turf horses at this sort of trip and they seem to hold their form very well, BUT.... how good actually are they? I only get to see these horses once or twice a year and i can't really get a hold of their form.

I know English Channel didn't finish too far in front of Stream Of Gold on a recent start (was that his last start?) and Stream Of Gold was only really a handicapper over here.

What about Better Talk Now? I know less about him other than he finished second in this last year, so he must be half decent.

If they do run DT will he be able to win on the bridle? My worry is that he won't find those extra gears he has in this soft ground that is likely. I still don't think they are keen to run him, but it's weather they think his class can see him through, but i'm just not sure.

Stream of Gold also just ran fourth behind Cloudy's Knight, Quijano, and Ask at Woodbine last Sunday.

How would you rate Quijano and Ask? It might go a long way in determining what kind of animal Stream of Gold is/has become since coming here, and that might help you get a feel for English Channel, etc.

Also, if you watch the race where English Channel "didn't finish too far in front of" Stream of Gold, you'll see that there's a huge reason for it. If you haven't actually seen that race, you absolutely need to before using Stream of Gold's performance vis a vis English Channel in that race as any sort of measuring stick.

EC's barely beating him could (and should) have been an open lengths romp.

brockguy · #2 10-26-2007, 12:45 PM

the fact that EngChan is 2nd fav after a less than stellar season just shows how poor this race is.. after dylan, id be looking at someone other than EC, BTN or Red Rocks to finish 2nd. Alot of the guys here like Shamdinan.

brianwspencer · #3 10-26-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy

the fact that EngChan is 2nd fav after a less than stellar season just shows how poor this race is.. after dylan, id be looking at someone other than EC, BTN or Red Rocks to finish 2nd. Alot of the guys here like Shamdinan.

I'm not pulling the "inside information" routine here -- just saying that a racing blogger I respect said that Shamdinan was the most visually unimpressive horse he saw all day today at Monmouth. He said his coat looked poor and that he just didn't look like he was ready to throw in a good performance tomorrow.

I like Shamdinan a lot on paper, and won't necessarily toss him because someone said he didn't look great, but it made me take pause.

jwkniska · #4 10-26-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I'm not pulling the "inside information" routine here -- just saying that a racing blogger I respect said that Shamdinan was the most visually unimpressive horse he saw all day today at Monmouth. He said his coat looked poor and that he just didn't look like he was ready to throw in a good performance tomorrow.

I like Shamdinan a lot on paper, and won't necessarily toss him because someone said he didn't look great, but it made me take pause.

He does NOT like soft turf. The drier it is, the better he'll do.

brockguy · #5 10-26-2007, 01:35 PM

Shamdinan? his best race in Europe and his best race in the States were both on softish (well good ground in the states!) ground..

Scav · #6 10-26-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy

Shamdinan? his best race in Europe and his best race in the States were both on softish (well good ground in the states!) ground..

Kev, that ground at Arlington was not good, they are nuts, it was yielding easily. It absolutely poured here following up to Million day here for like four days. They are full of bologna with that good ground....I could take my heal and put it in the ground by about an inch in my backyard that week

NoChanceToDance · #7 10-26-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Kev, that ground at Arlington was not good, they are nuts, it was yielding easily. It absolutely poured here following up to Million day here for like four days. They are full of bologna with that good ground....I could take my heal and put it in the ground by about an inch in my backyard that week

Is this generally what happens with the turf in America? The tracks calling it quicker than it actually is?

I noticed that Monmouth were still calling their turf "good" until about ten minutes ago when they finally changed it to yielding, even though the trainers were saying it was good to soft yesterday.

JJP · #8 10-27-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Kev, that ground at Arlington was not good, they are nuts, it was yielding easily. It absolutely poured here following up to Million day here for like four days. They are full of bologna with that good ground....I could take my heal and put it in the ground by about an inch in my backyard that week

Scav-

You are 100% correct. Arlington, like many U.S. tracks, seems hesitant to label their course yielding or soft. I remember it had been raining all week.....I remember After Market's connections scratching due to the turf condition. So a horse like Honey Ryder clearly doesn't seem to relish soft going and should be played against.

NoChanceToDance · #9 10-26-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy

Shamdinan? his best race in Europe and his best race in the States were both on softish (well good ground in the states!) ground..

He finished 3rd or 4th in the French Derby on softish ground didn't he? Apologies if i'm thinking of a different horse.

I'm getting everything wrong at the moment.

brockguy · #10 10-26-2007, 01:57 PM

yep he was 3rd in the french derby, then disappointed at the curragh (on bottomless ground!).

zippyneedsawin · #11 10-26-2007, 01:38 PM

I think I will be near the top of the list when it comes to burning money on Saturday... I usually do on BC day... oh wait.. what's the topic of this thread?

NoChanceToDance · #12 10-26-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Stream of Gold also just ran fourth behind Cloudy's Knight, Quijano, and Ask at Woodbine last Sunday.

How would you rate Quijano and Ask? It might go a long way in determining what kind of animal Stream of Gold is/has become since coming here, and that might help you get a feel for English Channel, etc.

Also, if you watch the race where English Channel "didn't finish too far in front of" Stream of Gold, you'll see that there's a huge reason for it. If you haven't actually seen that race, you absolutely need to before using Stream of Gold's performance vis a vis English Channel in that race as any sort of measuring stick.

EC's barely beating him could (and should) have been an open lengths romp.

Quijano and Ask are two nice horses but they would have plenty to find with Dylan Thomas when DT is at his best.

I did see that race where he squeezed through an almost impossible gap and won well. I must admit i forgot about that until you just mentioned it. It's just the fact that i would hate to think how moderate Stream Of Gold would look against Dylan Thomas.

I'm just trying to judge is Dylan can win this when only being half as good as he can be. Soft ground does take a fair amount from him, especially his turn of foot.