inconvenient

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I can tell you exactly why the Turks are slamming their spoons so hard against the top of their highchairs. They are not at all used to their sins being talked about. It's against the law to talk(in any way) negatively about TURKEY.They are not equipped to deal with being talked about.To not be able to "shut somebody up right now" is simply freaking them out.This comes with zero sanctions or penalties.It's simply free speech.The evidence will show that the Turks made Armenians march (without food or water) down towards the heat of Syria.This was away from any fighting between Turks n' Russians/Armenians in Eastern Turkey.When the rest of the World had their eyes on WW1,this is what the Turks were up to. I wouldn't be thrilled about my ethnic group doing it,but they are simply nuts to keep denying they did it.

They dont deny it. (A few bizarre groups and their politcal strongmen in the army), but they have admitted many times to the US in private that this was/is a black mark in their history.
They know what happened. The timing is what is interesting. Its the timing they really take exception to.

STS's insight is very interesting. I had not heard it mentioned from that perspective.

However, I will say Americans on the whole are ignorant of what went on. I met an Armenian girl in college and she told me all about it and I read about it and could not quite figure out why it was not mentioned. At least along with the Khmer Rouge and what they did in Cambodia after the Vietnam war. It may not have been as systematic and well documented as the holocaust, and the number of people that were slaughtered was not as great... But it was certainly a very sad moment in human history.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

They dont deny it. (A few bizarre groups and their politcal strongmen in the army), but they have admitted many times to the US in private that this was/is a black mark in their history.
They know what happened. The timing is what is interesting. Its the timing they really take exception to.

STS's insight is very interesting. I had not heard it mentioned from that perspective.

However, I will say Americans on the whole are ignorant of what went on. I met an Armenian girl in college and she told me all about it and I read about it and could not quite figure out why it was not mentioned. At least along with the Khmer Rouge and what they did in Cambodia after the Vietnam war. It may not have been as systematic and well documented as the holocaust, and the number of people that were slaughtered was not as great... But it was certainly a very sad moment in human history.

They deny it every f'n day.The same lie comes out of their mouths..

" It was the result of ethnic conflict caused by war,and just as many Turks died as Armenians."

It's a lie.They have lied for 90 years about this,and that's why this bill is going to be passed.If they admitted it,then this bill wouldn't exist.It's not Russians causing this bill.It's the arrogant TURKS who are quite frankly surprised when somebody has the nad to call them on a lie,and history will document BUSH getting in their fascist beds.There is no free speech in that country.You say anything about the founder of modern Turkey(ATATURK,) and you'll be arrested.Bush is very hit and miss on what he is offended by.This is not that far from a typical 70's era South American Dictatorship.Simply because they are ULTRA-NATIONALISTIC(instead of religious fundamentalists) doesn't mean we should let them dictate our policy decisions.It's inconvenient to disappoint them,but we shouldn't want to be anything like these people. You know,ya can't just (as a citizen) leave that country to go somewhere.I know somebody who simply can't get out of there,and they sure can't come to the U.S. Maybe if they lie and say they are just leaving to visit Germany.It's amazing how these 2 countries(Turkey/Germany) are linked up.I think it's because they are both so nationalistic(historically,) and both like to take over other countries(conquer..start an empire.)

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They deny it every f'n day.The same lie comes out of their mouths..

" It was the result of ethnic conflict caused by war,and just as many Turks died as Armenians."

It's a lie.They have lied for 90 years about this,and that's why this bill is going to be passed.If they admitted it,then this bill wouldn't exist.It's not Russians causing this bill.It's the arrogant TURKS who are quite frankly surprised when somebody has the nad to call them on a lie,and history will document BUSH getting in their fascist beds.There is no free speech in that country.You say anything about the founder of modern Turkey(ATATURK,) and you'll be arrested.Bush is very hit and miss on what he is offended by.This is not that far from a typical 70's era South American Dictatorship.Simply because they are ULTRA-NATIONALISTIC(instead of religious fundamentalists) doesn't mean we should let them dictate our policy decisions.It's inconvenient to disappoint them,but we shouldn't want to be anything like these people. You know,ya can't just (as a citizen) leave that country to go somewhere.I know somebody who simply can't get out of there,and they sure can't come to the U.S. Maybe if they lie and say they are just leaving to visit Germany.It's amazing how these 2 countries(Turkey/Germany) are linked up.I think it's because they are both so nationalistic(historically,) and both like to take over other countries(conquer..start an empire.)

Scuds they dont deny it. They deny it in public but they are not stupid. And the common man on the street of Turkey that is educated knows it also. My Uncle was a diplomat in Ankara for 10 years. He really did not like Turkey and said they are a very rough bunch, but they know that the world knows. Its for their public consumption and it works on the uneducated.

We basically do the same thing here, it just does not work nearly as well because the press is so free to operate. And the Military here knows they serve the people here. In Turkey, its not quite that clear. The military is very strong... probably the main reason they are still considered allies. This is a majority Muslim country. The Military in Turkey is the single most powerful entity that makes sure Church and State do not mix. Its an odd arrangement.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Scuds they dont deny it. They deny it in public but they are not stupid. And the common man on the street of Turkey that is educated knows it also. My Uncle was a diplomat in Ankara for 10 years. He really did not like Turkey and said they are a very rough bunch, but they know that the world knows. Its for their public consumption and it works on the uneducated.

We basically do the same thing here, it just does not work nearly as well because the press is so free to operate. And the Military here knows they serve the people here. In Turkey, its not quite that clear. The military is very strong... probably the main reason they are still considered allies. This is a majority Muslim country. The Military in Turkey is the single most powerful entity that makes sure Church and State do not mix. Its an odd arrangement.

If you had somebody rip you off ,then probably 1 thing upsets you more than the money.That would be that they are known as "good people." Only you and the guy who did you wrong know he is like this.Well,now imagine if it was murder of an ethnic group.The only justice the Armenians can get is to have these thugs known as thugs.To us,it is not that particularly important,but I can see why the Armenians need to have this happen.There couldn't be anything much worse than having your gandparents slaughtered,and then the criminals denying it,or saying "just as many Turks died." That would be sick.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

If you had somebody rip you off ,then probably 1 thing upsets you more than the money.That would be that they are known as "good people." Only you and the guy who did you wrong know he is like this.Well,now imagine if it was murder of an ethnic group.The only justice the Armenians can get is to have these thugs known as thugs.To us,it is not that particularly important,but I can see why the Armenians need to have this happen.There couldn't be anything much worse than having your gandparents slaughtered,and then the criminals denying it,or saying "just as many Turks died." That would be sick.

Agreed.

The timing is just dumb.
How about passing this when the Turks did not let us
use airbases that might have led to a very diff.
outcome in Iraq. People forget we could have got a
hell of a lot more soldiers into Iraq quicker if Turkey
would have helped by letting use bases. This was a huge
problem.

This is part of the reason I believe that the infrastructure
of Iraq was destroyed, we did not send more troops to
begin with so we could get the heck out quicker. Looting was
rampant all over and the wrong guys got the guns very
early on. Huge mistake. Of course Turkey did not want the
Kurds set free. The occasionally harassing of the Kurds by
Hussein was welcomed. Well guess what... it worked out the
wrong way for Turkey and US.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Agreed.

The timing is just dumb.
How about passing this when the Turks did not let us
use airbases that might have led to a very diff.
outcome in Iraq. People forget we could have got a
hell of a lot more soldiers into Iraq quicker if Turkey
would have helped by letting use bases. This was a huge
problem.

This is part of the reason I believe that the infrastructure
of Iraq was destroyed, we did not send more troops to
begin with so we could get the heck out quicker. Looting was
rampant all over and the wrong guys got the guns very
early on. Huge mistake. Of course Turkey did not want the
Kurds set free. The occasionally harassing of the Kurds by
Hussein was welcomed. Well guess what... it worked out the
wrong way for Turkey and US.

Well,he had time to get the f out of IRAQ,but he is crap at getting out of trouble,and damn good at getting in to it.Wouldn't be such a big deal if he had gotten us out of that **** hole,but he is inept.He didn't get us out,and so people voted for this house of reps.(Democratic majority.) The American people wanted us out.They voted to do that.He thumbed his nose at his own people.So,don't tell me the timing is wrong.He had the time.His own people told him it was time,and he ignored them.Now he is in a tough spot,and he is in it because he went against his own people,and these are the consequences.Get the f out,and you wouldn't of had to rely on Turkey,and you probably wouldn't of had this bill come up,because the DEMS. wouldn't of gotten the control of the house(if he had gotten us out of IRAQ.) It all adds up.He thumbed his nose at the electorate one too many times.Don't cry now,bitch,you made this bed,and you gunna sleep right in it like a good cowboy.Can't always get your way....This is something he is not really good at understanding,and that's why he is having to repeatedly kiss the butt of these thug TURKS.It's very unattractive (to say the least,)but this is his own fault(for not accepting reality.) Things aren't going his way.They aren't supposed to.Not when he refuses to accept reality of the election(that's what caused all this..he refuses to accept that the American People disagreed with him.) Like any control freak.."he knows better than the people" ...Should have been smarter,and a lot less stubborn.The Democrats are in there,because he ignored the American people's views about this war.Now he is pissed that the DEMS are making his war inconvenient to run? ......Dumbo...wake up.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Agreed.

The timing is just dumb.
How about passing this when the Turks did not let us
use airbases that might have led to a very diff.
outcome in Iraq. People forget we could have got a
hell of a lot more soldiers into Iraq quicker if Turkey
would have helped by letting use bases. This was a huge
problem.

This is part of the reason I believe that the infrastructure
of Iraq was destroyed, we did not send more troops to
begin with so we could get the heck out quicker. Looting was
rampant all over and the wrong guys got the guns very
early on. Huge mistake. Of course Turkey did not want the
Kurds set free. The occasionally harassing of the Kurds by
Hussein was welcomed. Well guess what... it worked out the
wrong way for Turkey and US.

People refuse to accept that you will never make these Turks happy enough to get what you need from them(when you want it.)It was o.k. for them to deny us many times in the last 15 years,but people still think they are our friends.They are 2-faced calculating thugs.That won't change.It isn't just this bill about genocide...o.k.? They also say we should control the KURDS for them...You can never satisfy these opportunistic thugs,and that's what people can't understand.It will always be endless demands from these people.Always been that way.There are always conditions,and remember
these "friends" wouldn't let us use their air space in the Gulf War.They will always be the deciders.That's the nature of these bitches.They will be our friends when they want to be,and you can not rely on them.They constantly measure,and weigh.You will now see just how nutty this country is.Lets start with this latest threat from Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said on CNN-Turk television today(Tuesday)Erdogan compared the resolution to a

"summary execution.Nobody has the right to judge Turkey like this.Those who dare confront an important country like Turkey will pay the price."

.....Well,all the facts are there for people to see it was genocide.So,people(if they choose to) can go look at the furniture ya pissed on.I mean really this is just like anybody who has a male dog that marks furniture.The dogs don't want you to point it out to them.They know they did it,but you better not confront them about it.The dog wants ya to do what ya got to do to feel better(clean up their piss.) Then what happens? I guarantee you the dog will mark that same spot again.They aren't real happy about this stain being shown to the world like this.They are basically growling (and showing teeth) right now at Pelosi.They have almost moved right past BUSH(by now,)because they finally realize he doesn't control this situation that they want controlled.It took a full week for these thugs to understand that.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

People refuse to accept that you will never make these Turks happy enough to get what you need from them(when you want it.)It was o.k. for them to deny us many times in the last 15 years,but people still think they are our friends.They are 2-faced calculating thugs.That won't change.It isn't just this bill about genocide...o.k.? They also say we should control the KURDS for them...You can never satisfy these opportunistic thugs,and that's what people can't understand.It will always be endless demands from these people.Always been that way.There are always conditions,and remember
these "friends" wouldn't let us use their air space in the Gulf War.They will always be the deciders.That's the nature of these bitches.They will be our friends when they want to be,and you can not rely on them.They constantly measure,and weigh.You will now see just how nutty this country is.Lets start with this latest threat from Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said on CNN-Turk television today(Tuesday)Erdogan compared the resolution to a

"summary execution.Nobody has the right to judge Turkey like this.Those who dare confront an important country like Turkey will pay the price."

.....Well,all the facts are there for people to see it was genocide.So,people(if they choose to) can go look at the furniture ya pissed on.I mean really this is just like anybody who has a male dog that marks furniture.The dogs don't want you to point it out to them.They know they did it,but you better not confront them about it.The dog wants ya to do what ya got to do to feel better(clean up their piss.) Then what happens? I guarantee you the dog will mark that same spot again.They aren't real happy about this stain being shown to the world like this.They are basically growling (and showing teeth) right now at Pelosi.They have almost moved right past BUSH(by now,)because they finally realize he doesn't control this situation that they want controlled.It took a full week for these thugs to understand that.

These thugs keep your a good number of Islamic fundamentalist suicide bombers tied up. Some times the choices you have are not the best. You want to deal with an Islamic Fundamentalist Militant state the size of Turkey with by far the best trained armed forces? Good luck with that.

Again all this blustering is wannabe public consumption. Turkey knows exactly what they did. And they know we know. And they know the Europeans know. Its no secret. And I guarantee you they are ashamed. It was one of the main sticking points of them having such a difficult time trying to enter NATO.