Support grows for Belmont slot machines

[freddymo]

Plow have the place over and sell houses It's a fn morgue

[sumitas]

if they work with the neighborhood, keep a nice clean facility inside and out, why not slots ?

[ShadowRoll]

In Maryland, they're talking about getting slots, but not having them at Pimlico.

http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v...localnews&om=1

Could this work with Belmont? It's a complex question involving both cash and attendance. On the one hand, if there's little cross-over between slots players and horse players, then it doesn't really matter if the money comes from on-site slots or from slots at a remote location. As long as some of the money garnered from slots at Aqueduct (or wherever) is channelled to Belmont, then Belmont should be able to remain competitive with tracks in neighboring states that do have slots.

But I'm not so sure that the absence of slots does not affect attendance. Let me give you an example. At one time, Delaware Park had slots but Philly didn't. From my home, the trip to Philly or Delaware is about the same, and if I were going to the track by myself, I might go to either one. But if I was going with my wife, I'd only go to Delaware Park because she only plays the slots. I suspect that many horse players go to tracks with slots because they don't go to the track alone. If this is true, then the absence of slots could affect a tracks draw, even if most horse players personally could care less about slots.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't think that the slot machine is the panacea for the racing industry's woes that some seem to think. Those people will be mighty surprised when the slots saturation point is reached, and even tracks that do have slots begin to feel the economic pinch again. However, until that saturation point is reached, slots seem necessary for survival. A tourniquet is not an adequate substitute for surgery, but you'll still bleed to death if you don't get one. And the economic power of slots can't be denied:

http://www.marylandthoroughbred.com/...kFarmStory.pdf

What we need now, while the money from slots is still abundant, are forward thinking people who can plan for a future without slots, and who actually have the power to carry out their plans. It'll be too late when Nero starts to play his fiddle.

[pmayjr]

Guys...

right now I don't see how slots are hurting the game. Purses are up everywhere they've been brought in. The thing that puts horse racing (and dogs, sports betting, jai alai, etc) at a disadvantage over casinos, is it can't be done 24/7/365 like games at a casino can be played. Casinos bring in $$$ all the time, the track only brings it in when there's live racing. Don't argue simulcasting, because not enough casual fans do that to make a difference. It sucks, but horse tracks need another revenue stream to prop themselves up. If in the long-term, I'm wrong about this, then ok. But look around- the tracks that have slots are doing quite well.

[Danzig]

but why the need to shun the slots? as was mentioned above, if the spouse goes, they go where the slots are. betting on horses is gambling. most who go to the track are indeed gamblers--so why not offer alternatives? hell, have a bingo parlor, some slots, video poker, keno, whatever...horse racing for many isn't about the gambling--that's not why i'm a fan--but for many it is, and it's what supports the sport. the more money flowing thru the track, the better.
since a lot of bettors can go to the otb for their betting, they need to offer other things you CAN'T get at the otb. handle is up, but attendance is down--offer what consumers want, variety.

[pmacdaddy]

Certainly a lot of unused space at BEL.

Might be better than the current sea of cars being stored for dealers or whatever they have going on over there...

I love Belmont, but it is a ghost town 9 times out of 10.

[pmacdaddy]

Certainly a lot of unused space at BEL.

Might be better than the current sea of cars being stored for dealers or whatever they have going on over there...

I love Belmont, but it is a ghost town 9 times out of 10.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

Don't get me wrong -- I don't think that the slot machine is the panacea for the racing industry's woes that some seem to think. Those people will be mighty surprised when the slots saturation point is reached, and even tracks that do have slots begin to feel the economic pinch again. However, until that saturation point is reached, slots seem necessary for survival. A tourniquet is not an adequate substitute for surgery, but you'll still bleed to death if you don't get one. And the economic power of slots can't be denied:

http://www.marylandthoroughbred.com/...kFarmStory.pdf

What we need now, while the money from slots is still abundant, are forward thinking people who can plan for a future without slots, and who actually have the power to carry out their plans. It'll be too late when Nero starts to play his fiddle.

If you think slots hurt the sport if we have control of them then what will it be like if they are just direct competition?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you think slots hurt the sport if we have control of them then what will it be like if they are just direct competition?

What will it be like? Just as you said. Competition. Some tracks make it, others go bust. Why should horse racing be immunized with slots? And why should horse racing benefit? No good reason. Unfair competition? Bullsh.t. There's competition in every industry. Why should there be new racetracks popping up just to appease horseowners? Plenty of tracks are surviving without slot machines and some are doing very well. Others are failing. So what? How's that different from how it has always been?

Slot machines in NY tracks is an absurd notion. What for? They already have the highest purse structure within 3000 miles. They're not going to attract better horses. Just taxing people more and paying inflated purses to the same horses.

If a racetrack can't make it, put up a mall. Or condos. The world will go on.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

What will it be like? Just as you said. Competition. Some tracks make it, others go bust. Why should horse racing be immunized with slots? And why should horse racing benefit? No good reason. Unfair competition? Bullsh.t. There's competition in every industry. Why should there be new racetracks popping up just to appease horseowners? Plenty of tracks are surviving without slot machines and some are doing very well. Others are failing. So what? How's that different from how it has always been?

Slot machines in NY tracks is an absurd notion. What for? They already have the highest purse structure within 3000 miles. They're not going to attract better horses. Just taxing people more and paying inflated purses to the same horses.

If a racetrack can't make it, put up a mall. Or condos. The world will go on.

I find it hard to believe that you actually like horse racing...do you??? Or does your "belief" in "fairness?" cloud your judgement so much that you cant see what"competition" unfettered (lottery, casinos, etc) has done to the industry that you supposedly support. Racetracks are in the gambling business so why should they not be allowed to expand their gambling menus?

Since you obviously dont understand or refuse to believe is that the economics of owning horses is slanted so far towards unprofitability especially in places like NY, that higher purses are the only salvation for the smaller owner who has little chance of having a stallion prospect or top broodmare. You know the people that put up the money so that you have a sport to bet on...

Of course the world goes on if racetracks close but that is not a trend that a fan of the sport would seem to be in favor of.

[Danzig]

i just don't see why the tracks can't have slots or other forms of gambling...why just betting the ponies? the track is a gambling place, where people make bets and hope to win money--slots, video poker, etc--why not?
obviously a poorly run place won't compete regardless of what games of chance they employ, but why is it such a bone of contention?

Originally Posted by SentToStud

What will it be like? Just as you said. Competition. Some tracks make it, others go bust. Why should horse racing be immunized with slots? And why should horse racing benefit? No good reason. Unfair competition? Bullsh.t. There's competition in every industry. Why should there be new racetracks popping up just to appease horseowners? Plenty of tracks are surviving without slot machines and some are doing very well. Others are failing. So what? How's that different from how it has always been?

Slot machines in NY tracks is an absurd notion. What for? They already have the highest purse structure within 3000 miles. They're not going to attract better horses. Just taxing people more and paying inflated purses to the same horses.

If a racetrack can't make it, put up a mall. Or condos. The world will go on.

Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet? How many fingers am I holding up?

Slots will bring more old people to the track. [/thread]

[Slewbopper]

Belmont is huge. I think they should install a full fledged casino on the ground floor, complete with shops and real restaurants and build a 2000 room hotel where the LIRR stop is, at the 1/4 pole with all rooms facing the track. There is still plenty of room for horse racing on the upper floors. For BC day they can install the bleachers on the apron, and for the Belmont they can open the infield like they do at churchill and Pimlico.

Originally Posted by Danzig

they'd have been shooed away by then, but they do come and peek sometimes...i usually keep my finger on the mouse wheel just in case, and thankfully i'm a fast reader and catch stuff (hopefully) before they do. of course they probably see/hear worse on the bus and at school!

Heck they've probably been to a rainbow party by now!

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you think slots hurt the sport if we have control of them then what will it be like if they are just direct competition?

I don't think that slots are injurious to the sport in and of themselves. It's like holding a hammer in your hand -- the hammer could be used to build a house or hit someone over the head. The hammer itself is nuetral; the way it is used defines it as being good or bad.

I just think that slots, in the long run, won't save the sport against the other competition for the gambling dollar that you mention. And I don't want to see horse racing become a secondary interest at race tracks. Unless the racing product is promoted as something of value itself, then racetracks will simply turn into slots parlors, with less and less money dedicated to racing and, eventually, the replacement of racing altogether for the more profitable business of slots. Just imagine how many machines you could fit at Belmont if you paved over the track.

For the moment, tracks should take all the money they can get out of slots. But with that money, the sport of horse racing should be promoted so that it can stand up by itself, without the crutch that slots really are.

[MaTH716]

[quote=ShadowRoll]

I just think that slots, in the long run, won't save the sport against the other competition for the gambling dollar that you mention. And I don't want to see horse racing become a secondary interest at race tracks. Unless the racing product is promoted as something of value itself, then racetracks will simply turn into slots parlors, with less and less money dedicated to racing and, eventually, the replacement of racing altogether for the more profitable business of slots. Just imagine how many machines you could fit at Belmont if you paved over the track.

I don't think that you can look at it as secondary intrest. You are going to have people there for the slots and have people there for the horses. For the 5 hours that there is live racing, hopefully it will be promoted enough that some of the slot people might show an intrest and bet a few races. Maybe you will even get a few to become fans of the sport. The important thing is to get them to the venue. Bottom line is that all these people are GAMBLERS. Don't forget a lot of that older slot crowd are degenerate number players. So who is to say that before some of these people hit the slot room they go to the window and put in triples for every race. They want action too. They will never be fans of the sport or love it like people on this site, but they will be involved. Let's face it even the most die hard of fan doesn't want to go to Aqueduct in February. So if you could have another means of entertainment for people and money from that will be going into the pot to support the industry, what's wrong with that? You are not going to lose the segment of people that go to the track that loves racing to the slots. If anything they might stay longer or bring other people with them.

[ShadowRoll]

[quote=MaTH716]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

I just think that slots, in the long run, won't save the sport against the other competition for the gambling dollar that you mention. And I don't want to see horse racing become a secondary interest at race tracks. Unless the racing product is promoted as something of value itself, then racetracks will simply turn into slots parlors, with less and less money dedicated to racing and, eventually, the replacement of racing altogether for the more profitable business of slots. Just imagine how many machines you could fit at Belmont if you paved over the track.

I don't think that you can look at it as secondary intrest. You are going to have people there for the slots and have people there for the horses. For the 5 hours that there is live racing, hopefully it will be promoted enough that some of the slot people might show an intrest and bet a few races. Maybe you will even get a few to become fans of the sport. The important thing is to get them to the venue. Bottom line is that all these people are GAMBLERS. Don't forget a lot of that older slot crowd are degenerate number players. So who is to say that before some of these people hit the slot room they go to the window and put in triples for every race. They want action too. They will never be fans of the sport or love it like people on this site, but they will be involved. Let's face it even the most die hard of fan doesn't want to go to Aqueduct in February. So if you could have another means of entertainment for people and money from that will be going into the pot to support the industry, what's wrong with that? You are not going to lose the segment of people that go to the track that loves racing to the slots. If anything they might stay longer or bring other people with them.

I believe that there is very little cross-over from slots players to horse players. For the most part, the type of people that enjoy pulling a handle (or pushing a button, nowadays) aren't the type of people who enjoy learning how to read and then interpreting the DRF.

But I'm not concerned about how many people might happen to look out the window of the slots parlor and notice that there's a race track outside (and then be intrigued enough to do something about it). I think this number is too low to make much of a difference. What I'm really concerened about is the track management, who see unbelieveable profit from the slots (at least for the moment, until everyone gets them and the competition causes profits to level off), and then see a sickly racing product that is marginally profitable at best. Without someone demanding that the racing aspect of the track not be forgotten, it will be the natural inclination to lessen, not increase, promotion of racing since the promotion money is better spent on the more successful product (i.e. slots). Money should be spent to get people to come to the race track for the express purpose of playing the races. It's simply too risky for the future of racing to hope that people who are there for the purpose of playing the slot machines might also try a bet on a horse race.

I used to work at an independent book store that was an icon in the town where I grew up. A new owner came in and saw that the office supply business and the gift business were far more profitable in terms of mark-up. Eventually, he phased out the books entirely (even though the word "bookstore" was part of the store's name). Finally, the store closed, and this icon, which was doing business in my home town years before I was born, was gone forever. By then, of course, it didn't matter -- the only thing that was interesting to me was the books, anyway.

Horse racing may not be a secondary interest at the tracks with slots at this point in time, but it could become so in the future, unless the slots money is reinvested into revitalizing an interest in the sport. Increased purses are all well and good, but it's the public who need to be wooed, not just the owners and trainers. Fat purses at the expense of increasing the allure of the racing product is a short-sighted road to disaster. It doesn't work to feed a select few while letting the masses starve. Unless your attitude is "let them eat cake."

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by sumitas

if they work with the neighborhood, keep a nice clean facility inside and out, why not slots ?

The neighborhood around is a dump(Elmont) and them saying that NYRA has not been a good neighbor is laughable.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The neighborhood around is a dump(Elmont) and them saying that NYRA has not been a good neighbor is laughable.

You are absolutely clueless and have no idea what you are talking about. Floral Park borders Belmont. There are million dollar homes just outside the fence of belmont's back parking area. Also, if you go out the back gate where the school is you are in Floral Park, where homes start at $500K.

Please get your head of of NYRA's butt. It is comical how people stick up for them all the time and then don't disclose their relationship with members of the group.

Who has more credibility, the people that live near the track, or the organization that is bankrupt and in years past was getting slapped around by the federal government? Remember the people that live in that neighborhood are the ones paying the taxes to bail out bankrupt groups like NYRA.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

You are absolutely clueless and have no idea what you are talking about. Floral Park borders Belmont. There are million dollar homes just outside the fence of belmont's back parking area. Also, if you go out the back gate where the school is you are in Floral Park, where homes start at $500K.

Please get your head of of NYRA's butt. It is comical how people stick up for them all the time and then don't disclose their relationship with members of the group.

Who has more credibility, the people that live near the track, or the organization that is bankrupt and in years past was getting slapped around by the federal government? Remember the people that live in that neighborhood are the ones paying the taxes to bail out bankrupt groups like NYRA.

These people that live in the neighborhood around Belmont have done nothing as a community to support Belmont. Things work both ways.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, people that see NYRA's side of the situation don't necessarily have their " head in NYRA's butt " as you suggest.