Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > Main Forum > The Paddock
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:15 PM
Uncle Daddy's Avatar
Uncle Daddy Uncle Daddy is offline
Cahokia Downs
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oakland County Michigan
Posts: 150
Default

Could the field sizes be a factor in the different styles of winners?
__________________
Do it big, do it right and do it with style!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:19 PM
dalakhani's Avatar
dalakhani dalakhani is offline
Del Mar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Washington dc
Posts: 5,277
Default

I like the racing at PID that i have watched. It seems fair although I dont think the lead is where i would prefer to be.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-24-2007, 10:34 PM
ex-specialist
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would prefer to be at Smith&Wollensky's with a porterhouse and a Maker's Mark, while we are on the topic of where we would like to be...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-25-2007, 05:13 AM
docicu3 docicu3 is offline
The Curragh
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,778
Default

I am a sheet player so I have a bias but the place has played very fairly if you can read the sheets and factor in the little nuggets like horses off a layoff who have had a race on this synthetic track much like Del Mar seemed to move forward.

So if a horse with decent numbers and had a race at PID this month where it finished 2nd,3rd or so the next start they are very competitive.

My peculiar way of thinking anyway.....and I'll probably try to use it at SA soon.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-25-2007, 11:28 PM
MISTERGEE MISTERGEE is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MIAMI
Posts: 1,978
Default

pid fields getting awfully small
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:14 AM
dalakhani's Avatar
dalakhani dalakhani is offline
Del Mar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Washington dc
Posts: 5,277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MISTERGEE
pid fields getting awfully small
where are you getting that info from? Almost every race in the next three days is filled.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-26-2007, 02:57 PM
Benevolus
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MISTERGEE
pid fields getting awfully small

Not with that type of money available. Meet ends in a few days so sometimes trainers start pulling out. Quite a few scratches there on a daily basis.

The criticism of PID is that it is not horseman friendly. No living space for the help. Tough to get licenses. The barns are not great.

Money though is the most important thing, and the purses are unbelievable. How often are you going to get 70K for maidens.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-26-2007, 03:28 PM
SentToStud's Avatar
SentToStud SentToStud is offline
Arlington Park
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,065
Default

Has Rosemary won a race yet?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-26-2007, 05:50 PM
The Indomitable DrugS's Avatar
The Indomitable DrugS The Indomitable DrugS is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalakhani
I like the racing at PID that i have watched. It seems fair although I dont think the lead is where i would prefer to be.
I did a half hour earlier today on Steve's show talking about PID.

One of the stats I mentioned, is that speed has actually done very well on the Tapeta there.

Going into today, horses leading at the first call had won 40 of the 168 races run (23.8%) - and some longshots have flat out stole races on the lead - including winners at odds of 45/1, 32/1, and several in the 10/1-to-22/1 range.

Speed is especially dangerous later on in the card - this is either due to the weather change effecting the track - or the fact that the track is being repeatedly harrowed after every race.

Here's a real oddball stat for you guys, PID schedules 8 races every day, in the day's 7th race, the horse leading after the first call has won 10 out of 21 races. Five of the winners at odds of 5/1 or more.

Speed has also been outstanding in Race 8. Though, the nightcap typically features cheaper horses who tend to be ridden more agressively early - while Race 7 is where the days feature race is carded.

Andy Beyer made note in an article a few days ago that the track often speeds up later in the day - the trend is faster times and a more speed friendly surface later on.

As for the "bias" - it's the fact that the rail has been dead pretty much the entire PID meet. It took the riders a surprisingly long time to figure that out, but now you see them all pretty much avoiding the rail altogther.

Post position #1 is 2-for-47 at six furlongs coming into today - and post positon #2 at six furlongs is 1-for-47 coming into today. That's a combined 3-for-94!

* One of the winners breaking from post one was Masters Stakes winner Miss Macy Sue - who was AWESOME in victory and has a legit look in the newly added Breeders Cup F&M Sprint in my opinion.

* The other winner who won from post one at six furlongs was a 1/5 shot shipping in off of a dominant Del Mar victory, to run in a PA Bred race. The horse couldn't lose on paper, and won by 2.5

* And the lone winner who broke from post two at six furlongs - came back to just miss winning at 25/1 last week.

Other interesting PID Tapeta trends:

* Horses who've won over the surface have come back to go 10-for-42 so far. The avg winner paying $10.20. Meaning they've produced a 21.5% profit on the betting dollar. So, it looks like there's something to the theory that horses who handle the surface well deserve a strong look 2nd time over it.

* Turf sprinters have been outstanding! Horses exiting 5 furlong or 5.5 furlong turf sprints have collectively done outstanding on the Tapeta. Especially stretching out to 6 and 6.5 furlong sprints. All horses with less than exciting dirt form - but sold form sprinting on the turf deserve a strong look.

* There have been four horses at the meet so far who have won at odds of 45/1 or greater. In two cases, these horses had LOUSY dirt form and pretty decent turf form. In the other two cases, you had two maiden with terrible lifetime form....but, both had never tried the turf, and both had clear-cut turf breeding top and bottom.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-26-2007, 06:12 PM
dalakhani's Avatar
dalakhani dalakhani is offline
Del Mar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Washington dc
Posts: 5,277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I did a half hour earlier today on Steve's show talking about PID.

One of the stats I mentioned, is that speed has actually done very well on the Tapeta there.

Going into today, horses leading at the first call had won 40 of the 168 races run (23.8%) - and some longshots have flat out stole races on the lead - including winners at odds of 45/1, 32/1, and several in the 10/1-to-22/1 range.

Speed is especially dangerous later on in the card - this is either due to the weather change effecting the track - or the fact that the track is being repeatedly harrowed after every race.

Here's a real oddball stat for you guys, PID schedules 8 races every day, in the day's 7th race, the horse leading after the first call has won 10 out of 21 races. Five of the winners at odds of 5/1 or more.

Speed has also been outstanding in Race 8. Though, the nightcap typically features cheaper horses who tend to be ridden more agressively early - while Race 7 is where the days feature race is carded.

Andy Beyer made note in an article a few days ago that the track often speeds up later in the day - the trend is faster times and a more speed friendly surface later on.

As for the "bias" - it's the fact that the rail has been dead pretty much the entire PID meet. It took the riders a surprisingly long time to figure that out, but now you see them all pretty much avoiding the rail altogther.

Post position #1 is 2-for-47 at six furlongs coming into today - and post positon #2 at six furlongs is 1-for-47 coming into today. That's a combined 3-for-94!

* One of the winners breaking from post one was Masters Stakes winner Miss Macy Sue - who was AWESOME in victory and has a legit look in the newly added Breeders Cup F&M Sprint in my opinion.

* The other winner who won from post one at six furlongs was a 1/5 shot shipping in off of a dominant Del Mar victory, to run in a PA Bred race. The horse couldn't lose on paper, and won by 2.5

* And the lone winner who broke from post two at six furlongs - came back to just miss winning at 25/1 last week.

Other interesting PID Tapeta trends:

* Horses who've won over the surface have come back to go 10-for-42 so far. The avg winner paying $10.20. Meaning they've produced a 21.5% profit on the betting dollar. So, it looks like there's something to the theory that horses who handle the surface well deserve a strong look 2nd time over it.

* Turf sprinters have been outstanding! Horses exiting 5 furlong or 5.5 furlong turf sprints have collectively done outstanding on the Tapeta. Especially stretching out to 6 and 6.5 furlong sprints. All horses with less than exciting dirt form - but sold form sprinting on the turf deserve a strong look.

* There have been four horses at the meet so far who have won at odds of 45/1 or greater. In two cases, these horses had LOUSY dirt form and pretty decent turf form. In the other two cases, you had two maiden with terrible lifetime form....but, both had never tried the turf, and both had clear-cut turf breeding top and bottom.
Great info. I do enjoy playing that track. full fields and a good chance at real value.

Thanks again. That was a pleasure to read.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:08 PM
sumitas sumitas is offline
Santa Anita
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,362
Default

very thorough, very interesting. tx much.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:48 PM
The Indomitable DrugS's Avatar
The Indomitable DrugS The Indomitable DrugS is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,007
Default

Asmussen has now had a trio of expensive maidens with interesting breeding come up short at PID lately.

In tonights 5th race, a 3yo full sibling to Haskell winner and Belmont 2nd place finisher Bluegrass Cat finished 2nd in a MSW race, in career start #2. He was 3rd in his career debut earlier in the meet. He actually ran a pretty nice race, but had no responce at all to the Amoss trained runner who laid over the field.

In last Saturdays 3rd race, Asmussen had a 2yo debuter by Vindication that's a half sibling to Grade 1 winning millionaire Eddington. It cost 700K as a yearling. It was soundly defeated in a race won by a 250K Successful Appeal yearling buy for Amoss. A Paula Capestro trained son of Fu Peg who debuted at Del Mar ran quite well finishing 2nd.

Twice this meet, Silver Light, a Zayat owned 3yo half sibling to Super Derby winner Strong Contender has failed to win as the heavy favorite for Asmussen. He embarssingly lossed to a Glenn Wismer trained son of Cozar that scored at 33/1. The Wismer horse is acutally a full sibling to Calculating Man - who established the track record for six furlongs at a big odds upset, in an ALW race run late in the inaugural Keeneland polytrack meet. Calculating Man suffered a fatal breakdown right after the wire in the big win, and became the first horse to die from a racing injury suffered on the KEE poly.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-27-2007, 04:41 AM
3kings's Avatar
3kings 3kings is offline
Oriental Park
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,495
Default

I-drugs,

Thank you for the analyisis and other info. It has been an interesting and unpredictable meet so any insight is helpful. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.