Why are Hard Spun's Connections so stubborn?

NoLuvForPletch · #1 09-18-2007, 02:41 PM

While I think there is a good chance Hard Spun can hold off Street Sense in the KCC at Turfway, why do his connections insist on running him at 1 1/4 miles in the BCC? He's not going to win, and I love Hard Spun. Wouldn't it make him more valuable as a stallion if he goes on the grass and takes the BCM? I mean, he did finish second in the Derby, so he's already proven he can carry his speed, even though he didn't win. If he takes to the grass and takes the Mile, after winning the King's Bishop, doesn't that make him a very unique breeding prospect?

blackthroatedwind · #2 09-18-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What if he goes on the grass and runs dead last? Why are you so convinced he will take to the turf, and win the Mile? Shakespeare would eat him up.

He's very well bred for grass and a number of people I respect think he has a lot of physical things going for him in terms of handling the turf. I can't disagree that his chances in the Mile are better than they are in the Classic.

I wonder if Godolphin has anything to do with whatever decision they make.

NoLuvForPletch · #3 09-18-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What if he goes on the grass and runs dead last? Why are you so convinced he will take to the turf, and win the Mile? Shakespeare would eat him up.

First off, he's by Danzig so it's quite likely the grass would be to his liking. Second, Larry Jones has said he likes it when they work him over it. Third, they wouldn't have to run him in the Mile as his first try on the grass. They could've run him in the Kelso at Belmont (too late now as the noms are in) on the same day as the KCC, and if he showed that it wasn't for him, they can make plans from there. What is the difference running him a mile on the grass as a prep for the BCC or a 1 1/8 miles on the poly as a prep for the BCC if the grass didn't work out? I just don't think 1 1/4 miles is his game.

LARHAGE · #4 09-18-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

While I think there is a good chance Hard Spun can hold off Street Sense in the KCC at Turfway, why do his connections insist on running him at 1 1/4 miles in the BCC? He's not going to win, and I love Hard Spun. Wouldn't it make him more valuable as a stallion if he goes on the grass and takes the BCM? I mean, he did finish second in the Derby, so he's already proven he can carry his speed, even though he didn't win. If he takes to the grass and takes the Mile, after winning the King's Bishop, doesn't that make him a very unique breeding prospect?

Shakespeare would crush him in the Mile.

SniperSB23 · #5 09-18-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He's very well bred for grass and a number of people I respect think he has a lot of physical things going for him in terms of handling the turf. I can't disagree that his chances in the Mile are better than they are in the Classic.

I wonder if Godolphin has anything to do with whatever decision they make.

I really think he'd be great on the turf also, too bad we'll probably never see it. I guess the thinking is that if they are going to take one last shot why not go for it all. I know Godolphin had a clause when they bought the breeding rights to Hard Spun that his connections would get a hefty bonus if they could get him a G1 win by the end of the year. There may be another lucrative bonus if he were to win the BC Classic which would give them even more incentive to take a shot. So Godolphin may be indirectly pointing them in that direction.

pmayjr · #6 09-18-2007, 02:55 PM

The BCM would be a great spot for him I agree. So would the dirt mile or the sprint. I seriously think he has the speed to win at 6f as well. I don't think the King's Bishop was a fluke. But overall I agree that we've seen time and time again that he can't stay for 1 1/4. He's still a freak, so I agree, place him somewhere else.

blackthroatedwind · #7 09-18-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I really think he'd be great on the turf also, too bad we'll probably never see it. I guess the thinking is that if they are going to take one last shot why not go for it all. I know Godolphin had a clause when they bought the breeding rights to Hard Spun that his connections would get a hefty bonus if they could get him a G1 win by the end of the year. There may be another lucrative bonus if he were to win the BC Classic which would give them even more incentive to take a shot. So Godolphin may be indirectly pointing them in that direction.

Well, one could argue that he is a rabbit for Street Sense in the Classic, at least for Godolphin's best interests, and if Lawyer Ron continues his dominance outside of Saratoga in the Jockey Club then Hard Spun's presense may be needed. Who knows what speed types are now pointing to the Classic due to the new Mile ( and 70 ) race.

NoLuvForPletch · #8 09-18-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, one could argue that he is a rabbit for Street Sense in the Classic, at least for Godolphin's best interests, and if Lawyer Ron continues his dominance outside of Saratoga in the Jockey Club then Hard Spun's presense may be needed. Who knows what speed types are now pointing to the Classic due to the new Mile ( and 70 ) race.

Is this Andy or Indian Charlie?

NoLuvForPletch · #9 09-18-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think he is up the track in the Classic myself, but IMO what is the incentive for running in the Mile? He's not going to prep on the turf, so it just seems like a big risk to me. I realize that the mile is sort of scattered right now and we don't know who is showing up. But why not the BC mile and 70?

Why in a billion years would they run him in an ungraded stakes race?

blackthroatedwind · #10 09-18-2007, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Is this Andy or Indian Charlie?

What's that supposed to mean?

NoLuvForPletch · #11 09-18-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What's that supposed to mean?

Indian Charlie wrote the same thing on his sheet on Monday about Hard Spun being a rabbit for Street Sense in the KCC. NO offense intended.

Linny · #12 09-18-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What if he goes on the grass and runs dead last? Why are you so convinced he will take to the turf, and win the Mile? Shakespeare would eat him up.

Larry Jones told me that his initial thought on HS was that he'd make a great grass miler. He is by Danzig and had breeding rights not been sold, he (Jones) would likely have run him on grass already.

blackthroatedwind · #13 09-18-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Indian Charlie wrote the same thing on his sheet on Monday about Hard Spun being a rabbit for Street Sense in the KCC. NO offense intended.

I miss Indian Charlie's assaults on me. It was the highest form of flattery.

blackthroatedwind · #14 09-18-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Because of the million dollar purse??? He's got his grade 1, what else does he need on his resume?

I think, once again, you have to ask yourself if you think Godolphin has any say about which race he chooses. Certainly they would be against the ungraded Mile ( and 70 ). But, from an owner's perspective, you may well be right that is the race he has the most equity in.

NoLuvForPletch · #15 09-18-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Because of the million dollar purse??? He's got his grade 1, what else does he need on his resume?

The winner's share after trainer and jockey's cut is less than a half a mill. What does that really do for Porter and Godolphin in the grand scheme of things, especially if Porter is promised some kind of incentives for winning graded races?

SniperSB23 · #16 09-18-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I miss Indian Charlie's assaults on me. It was the highest form of flattery.

I only noticed him insulting some Andy Sterling guy.

blackthroatedwind · #17 09-18-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I only noticed him insulting some Andy Sterling guy.

Yeah, that poor innocent guy keeps getting his name dragged through the mud because of me.

NoLuvForPletch · #18 09-18-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I understand this, but it's not going to happen. My post was in response to the original poster sure he was not going to win the Classic, yet pretty sure he could win the Mile.

Please point out where in my original post I stated that I was "pretty sure he could win the Mile"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

While I think there is a good chance Hard Spun can hold off Street Sense in the KCC at Turfway, why do his connections insist on running him at 1 1/4 miles in the BCC? He's not going to win, and I love Hard Spun. Wouldn't it make him more valuable as a stallion if he goes on the grass and takes the BCM? I mean, he did finish second in the Derby, so he's already proven he can carry his speed, even though he didn't win. If he takes to the grass and takes the Mile, after winning the King's Bishop, doesn't that make him a very unique breeding prospect?

I simply ask that IF he won the Mile as opposed to placing in the Classic wouldn't that make him unique? What good does it do for him to run 2nd, 3rd or even worse in another mile and a quarter race. He's already done that, multiple times.

King Glorious · #19 09-18-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Please point out where in my original post I stated that I was "pretty sure he could win the Mile"?

I simply ask that IF he won the Mile as opposed to placing in the Classic wouldn't that make him unique? What good does it do for him to run 2nd, 3rd or even worse in another mile and a quarter race. He's already done that, multiple times.

He has?

Indian Charlie · #20 09-18-2007, 03:27 PM

i think they should transfer hard spun to ron ellis and run him in the bc juvie.