Any Given Saturday

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

As said, no, which as we have all discussed in great detail is part of the major problem in this industry. Whether due to injury or by choice, a 4yo campaign is just not economically feasible. They would be tremendouly rewarded for retiring the horse.

Not that I was a big fan prior to, but that performance in the Haskell was very impressive.

Eric

Actually it is economically feasible for the new owners.

However, they are just interested with accumulating as many potential stallions as they can to try to one up Coolmore in the only area where they have been deficent. (other than winning the Derby)

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually it is economically feasible for the new owners.

However, they are just interested with accumulating as many potential stallions as they can to try to one up Coolmore in the only area where they have been deficent. (other than winning the Derby)

Yes, it is economically "feasible" for the new owners -- you are right. They can "afford" to ignore economics and race the horse as a 4yo -- but of course you are right again, and they won't.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Yes, it is economically "feasible" for the new owners -- you are right. They can "afford" to ignore economics and race the horse as a 4yo -- but of course you are right again, and they won't.

Eric

Just about anything is economically feasible for them

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Just about anything is economically feasible for them

Although I don't play anywhere near that level, what I find very disturbing (as many others do as well), is the cause/effect of how the marketplace has been completely distorted -- at various points on the spectrum. We have seen it in buying promising racehorses (Discreet Cat), and in the broodmare marketplace (Ashado), and the stallion marketplace (how many do we have to name here, LOL).

Unlike others, I admit that if I ended up with a promising superstar, although I have done very well for myself, my family, business, horses, personal investments, real estate, etc. -- not selling for some scary number would be a poor decision. Being a "sportsmen" becomes unfeasible. It's similar to the people who say if they ever won the lottery, they wouldn't quit their job. Easy to say, but being in the financial/estate/tax/etc. field, I can tell you it's different when you are actually wearing the shoes as opposed to dreaming or projecting about wearing the shoes.

The same with a top 3yo. Although I would enjoy the incredible ride and would love to race him as a 4yo -- it just becomes extremely difficult, if not impossible.

It's not just the marketplace, but the entire industry and sport that needs a "correction" so to speak.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Although I don't play anywhere near that level, what I find very disturbing (as many others do as well), is the cause/effect of how the marketplace has been completely distorted -- at various points on the spectrum. We have seen it in buying promising racehorses (Discreet Cat), and in the broodmare marketplace (Ashado), and the stallion marketplace (how many do we have to name here, LOL).

Unlike others, I admit that if I ended up with a promising superstar, although I have done very well for myself, my family, business, horses, personal investments, real estate, etc. -- not selling for some scary number would be a poor decision. Being a "sportsmen" becomes unfeasible. It's similar to the people who say if they ever won the lottery, they wouldn't quite their job. Easy to say, but being in the financial/estate/tax/etc. field, I can tell you it's different when you are actually wearing the shoes as opposed to dreaming or projecting about wearing the shoes.

The same with a top 3yo. Although I would enjoy the incredible ride and would love to race him as a 4yo -- it just becomes extremely difficult, if not impossible.

It's not just the marketplace, but the entire industry and sport that needs a "correction" so to speak.

Eric

Very well put.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually it is economically feasible for the new owners.

However, they are just interested with accumulating as many potential stallions as they can to try to one up Coolmore in the only area where they have been deficent. (other than winning the Derby)

How many mares do you need?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

How many mares do you need?

I need about 8 more but I'm pretty poor

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I need about 8 more but I'm pretty poor

well, if you are poor I hate to ask what that makes the rest of us.(me)
I was just curious what the ratio of mares to stallions were.

I think they retire horses to stud at 3 (sometimes 2) because if they go on to race at 4 they don't make the money they can as a stallion. He may prove less valuable every time he runs, risks getting beat or injured in the worse way.

a bird in the hand

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

well, if you are poor I hate to ask what that makes the rest of us.(me)
I was just curious what the ratio of mares to stallions were.

I think they retire horses to stud at 3 (sometimes 2) because if they go on to race at 4 they don't make the money they can as a stallion. He may prove less valuable every time he runs, risks getting beat or injured in the worse way.

a bird in the hand

I understand what you are saying but overpaying for a horse then using the fact that you may have overpaid and dont want to lose value as a basis for early retirement is questionable.

As Eric says in his previous post, the majority of owners cannot turn down huge sums of money but the billionaires that talk about value and such are simply bad for the game in the long run.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I understand what you are saying but overpaying for a horse then using the fact that you may have overpaid and dont want to lose value as a basis for early retirement is questionable.

As Eric says in his previous post, the majority of owners cannot turn down huge sums of money but the billionaires that talk about value and such are simply bad for the game in the long run.

Thanks for understanding wha I am saying. It is a challenge.

just to be clear. I was not being complmentary. I think it is a sham and agree that it is bad for racing.

Also, this is why I wonder why anyone would take a horse to a freshman sire that hasn't proven anything in the shed. How many drop from their initial offering and how many jump up like Storm Cat. Why take your horse to AGS when Distorted Humor (I think) is the one that produced AGS. Now that I have said this I am sure AGS will go on to be the leading sire of 2010.

[NoChanceToDance]

Is anyone else completely shocked that WinStar sold a decent stallion prospect? They are know for keeping their horses and standing them as stallions after they are retired.

I'm guessing the Darley offer would have to have been around $35-40million for WinStar to accept the offer, i might be wrong but it must have been HUGE for them to say yes.

He would have retired at the end of this year if either operation had ownership of him.

I'm convinced they will get Curlin asap, too. They are desperate to get the leading first season sire in America and with Hard Spun, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, and maybe Curlin that objective looks reachable and i hope for American breeding they do it, because if they don't they will begin try to purchase every single high class 3yo until they do get a top freshman.

Their domination of the sport (as far as money is concerned) in Britain is well documented. I'm pretty sure the same tactics will soon be evident in the US, too.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

Thanks for understanding wha I am saying. It is a challenge.

just to be clear. I was not being complmentary. I think it is a sham and agree that it is bad for racing.

Also, this is why I wonder why anyone would take a horse to a freshman sire that hasn't proven anything in the shed. How many drop from their initial offering and how many jump up like Storm Cat. Why take your horse to AGS when Distorted Humor (I think) is the one that produced AGS. Now that I have said this I am sure AGS will go on to be the leading sire of 2010.

It's a risk, but it could turn out to be very profitable. If you plan to sell the resulting colt/filly as a foal or yearling it's almost certain that you will get more if it is by a freshman. In this game it's all about taking risks with stallions, freshman sires will always be in demand.

Over in Europe, everyone is banking on Hurricane Run to prove himself. I think his yearlings will sell very very well. It seems like every mare owner wants to go to him.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I need about 8 more but I'm pretty poor

Your cousin is not poor.
Call a timeout and get him in the game.