Who is an owner? What's your story?

[Storm Cadet]

Originally Posted by mark2061mn

The partnership wasn't CVF by any chance, was it?? I used to be in that partnership and it was very shady.

Bingo....you guessed right!

[mark2061mn]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Bingo....you guessed right!

I bolted quick from them in 2004. I was in 2 different partnerships with a totla of 5 horses. They are not very trustworthy, they withold alot of information they shouldn't. I learned alot ( not from them ), from hanging out in the backstretch but it also soured me and a friend that was in it with me. He wrote some nasty emails to the group before we left. You probably remember. Hope you have better luck in the future.

Mark.

[The Bid]

Happens more often than new owners realize. Good information here for Kristi.

You cannot be successful in this game without being surrounded by trustworthy people. I think thats why the DT partnership has been successful. No unreal expectations, and having a plan.

Sorry to hear the story about the partnership you guys were in, but thats pretty much the norm and not the exception.

[Storm Cadet]

With West Point, I found them very professional and up front with their business plan and practices. They were open to new clients and spent a lot of time explaining the expenses and mark ups etc. They didn't with hold any race track info, in fact encourages going on the backstretch and meet with trainers and staff. You got along with winning photos, a cd or video of each win. With WPTB...what you see is what you get. The are like a Full service Wall Street financial company with PR, sales, customer relations people all assembled to help you. They have Buzz Chance as their yearling go to guy! Yes they are expensive...but they advertise themselves as the top outfit.

Now with the other outfits, they bill themselves as the Charles Swab (low cost-minimal expenses) partnership. They bill themselves as no owner expenses except minimal. They portray themselves that way on their web site as well as in person. But what you don't see is what kills ya. I'd rather be told UP FRONT PRIOR to joining a partnership than to be in one and then find out all their hidden little secrets of how they make their management profit. We won't go into all their ways here. PM me if you'd like a lesson in what questions to ask and in how to spot the wolves in sheeps clothing so you don't get fleeced like many others.

Remember a rule, these people start their own for profit horse stables to make money-YOUR MONEY. Win or lose...they make MONEY-YOUR MONEY! Their business models are set up so THEY are protected and the only losses are the investors.

If anyone is seriously thinking about joining a partnership do two things: Read Cot Cambells book "Lightening in a Jar". It is the best out there and is the gold standard IMO on things to know Prior to joining any outfit. Two, get EVERYTHING in writing and ask questions.

Look to join the next opening of DT's next offering! Their business plan is the best for new owners looking to get into the best game there is and meet great people and have some fun...win or lose!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Remember a rule, these people start their own for profit horse stables to make money-YOUR MONEY. Win or lose...they make MONEY-YOUR MONEY! Their business models are set up so THEY are protected and the only losses are the investors.

Very well stated and true.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Look to join the next opening of DT's next offering! Their business plan is the best for new owners looking to get into the best game there is and meet great people and have some fun...win or lose!

Look for details on the next offering around opening day at Saratoga.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Remember a rule, these people start their own for profit horse stables to make money-YOUR MONEY. Win or lose...they make MONEY-YOUR MONEY! Their business models are set up so THEY are protected and the only losses are the investors.

As Chuck said, yes, very well stated and very true. It is crucial to remember -- and most people either forget or don't ever realize -- that these partnerships have a business model. They are not in the business of racing horses, making money from purses as their primary revenue source, and making money for the investors/limited partners/etc. These partnerships are in the business of syndicating horses and selling partnership interests. Think about it.

While this may or may not be obvious to some, and it might be simple -- it really is important to think this concept through.

Eric

[Norfolk]

I have owned horses for about 30 years and I still enjoy it.
Storm Cadet has pointed out a number of good points especially about commercial partnerships. I had a friend that worked for one and he said almost all bills they presented to the partners had a 10% markup. So when you get the transportation bill or the shoeing bill etc it may be marked up.
As for the sales, people should go to jail for what “some” of the partnerships do. I have seen cases where they buy a horse hours before the sale but still send it through the ring and bid it way up over value and then use that price to set up the partnership. Some trainers are known to do the same thing.
So as always “buyer beware”.
I would suggest starting out in a small local partnership. Find an honest trainer at a track near you. Ask people you know in racing a lot of questions about everything. Don’t invest too much until you get your feet wet and know the business a little.
Early on I went through a number of questionable trainers. I was lucky, about 25 years ago I met a trainer who right off I knew cared about horses and people. We became friends and have been partners for over 20 years.
Every owner I know will tell you the mistakes he/she has made. Don’t go into it thinking you are going to make money and work with someone who will keep you out of trouble with the IRS rules.
Horseracing has very many highs and very many lows. I have read in this thread about people winning races and how great it is. You should also be aware of the lows, i.e. when you are standing there with a group of friends and your horse come in last.

That being said there is nothing better than to see your horse cross the finish line first.
It doesn’t matter if it is a $5000 claimer or the Gold Cup.

I would highly recommend getting into the business. I have met many interesting people and have made a lot of friends. It is a great experience.
Just as I said earlier though “Caveat emptor”

Joe

[Storm Cadet]

Guys: Here's an excellent article/transcript from Bloodhorse regarding ownership by Terry Finley of West Point TB. Great read: Great question and answer from the public!

http://www.bloodhorse.com/talkinhorses/TF071207.asp

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

With West Point, I found them very professional and up front with their business plan and practices. They were open to new clients and spent a lot of time explaining the expenses and mark ups etc. They didn't with hold any race track info, in fact encourages going on the backstretch and meet with trainers and staff. You got along with winning photos, a cd or video of each win. With WPTB...what you see is what you get. The are like a Full service Wall Street financial company with PR, sales, customer relations people all assembled to help you. They have Buzz Chance as their yearling go to guy! Yes they are expensive...but they advertise themselves as the top outfit.

Now with the other outfits, they bill themselves as the Charles Swab (low cost-minimal expenses) partnership. They bill themselves as no owner expenses except minimal. They portray themselves that way on their web site as well as in person. But what you don't see is what kills ya. I'd rather be told UP FRONT PRIOR to joining a partnership than to be in one and then find out all their hidden little secrets of how they make their management profit. We won't go into all their ways here. PM me if you'd like a lesson in what questions to ask and in how to spot the wolves in sheeps clothing so you don't get fleeced like many others.

Remember a rule, these people start their own for profit horse stables to make money-YOUR MONEY. Win or lose...they make MONEY-YOUR MONEY! Their business models are set up so THEY are protected and the only losses are the investors.

If anyone is seriously thinking about joining a partnership do two things: Read Cot Cambells book "Lightening in a Jar". It is the best out there and is the gold standard IMO on things to know Prior to joining any outfit. Two, get EVERYTHING in writing and ask questions.

Look to join the next opening of DT's next offering! Their business plan is the best for new owners looking to get into the best game there is and meet great people and have some fun...win or lose!

At the end of the year, what would you estimate it cost you for WPTB?

[Storm Cadet]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

At the end of the year, what would you estimate it cost you for WPTB?

I'm not sure...they are very expensive right now. When I joined them, they would look for 2 yo's in the 50-75 G range and mark them up to 100G. Now they purchase horses for say $100-300 grand and sells shares based on a value of $300-500G. On top of that they started charging monthly management fees for each horse. I left them in 2004. They started this upgraded business profile that same year.

One easy way of finding out the purchase price is to look online at the OBS/Keeneland/SAR sales sites. They list the purchase price (MOST of the times it's accurate...but they play games there too!). Then see what WPTB is selling the shares for!

They have to charge such high markups and fees because of national TV advertising TVG, and other additional national sales staff and PR people, web page management etc. But I always find them to be great guys, honest and very caring to their owner/investors.

[phystech]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

They have to charge such high markups and fees because of national TV advertising TVG, and other additional national sales staff and PR people, web page management etc. But I always find them to be great guys, honest and very caring to their owner/investors.

I wonder how they get around SEC regulations regarding their offerings?

Given they aren't just marketing something to a few of their closest friends, in essence, they are offering an investment to the whole world via the web, print and TV. SEC regs have to come into play there somewhere.

I thought about going global a few years ago and actually printed up about 10,000 fliers which I distributed at Pimlico on Black Eyed Susan Day and Preakness Day. Other than the fact that out of those 10,000 distributed, I got three emails and 5 hits on a web page I had set up, I backed off because my fears were raised about SEC intervention once I found out that the first partnership I was in had been investigated and fined by the AZ SEC.

Given that so many of the partnerships out there charge a management fee, I guess I was a real idiot - I never charged my partners a dime in management fees. I bought my shares in each horse just like everyone else did and made my money off my share of ownership, just like the rest did. We all made the same or lost the same, based on percentage of ownership.

[Swap Fliparoo]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

They have to charge such high markups and fees because of national TV advertising TVG, and other additional national sales staff and PR people, web page management etc. But I always find them to be great guys, honest and very caring to their owner/investors.

I know a guy who sells shares for West Point, he said he's never selling to the husband, but to the wife. The guy walks in already knowing what he wants to buy... the only one you have to sway is the woman behind the dollars!

[Holland Hacker]

I am a partner in two different horses with two different outfits.

One I got into in 2002 and the second one I just got into in last December.

I will not be entering into any more with the first outfit as the only individuals that have a shot at making money is the general partner. It is a dreadful how much they mark up the horses that they are selling and then the cut they take on the winnings is pretty high also. At least this was not a real costly mistake the horse has done very well it will be interesting to see how the p-ship unfolds when the mare is done racing.

The second horse is also a partnership but it seems like there is a lot more visability into the finances of the partnership & the payout of purses. I am optomistic that this will be a better venture than the first. If it doesn't work out I may have to give up the ownership thing until I can afford to either claim a horse or consult with a trainer and buy a yearling.

Hopefully this second venture works out.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do.