Circular Quay

Betsy · #1 07-08-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

1) What sarcasm? I was not being sarcastic in any portion of my post.
2) No I do not think that those of you who disagreed with Oracle did so out of spite. I never said you did.
3) People were criticizing him for being so excited about this horse. I simply stated that "maybe those people who criticized Oracle for the way he hyped this 2yo are satisfied now." I don't see what is so bad about that statement. Maybe they ARE satisfied. Maybe they are not. In my opinion they should be after the colt's performance today. That was my point.

I do apologize, Miraja. It's very easy to misread something over the internet, and I should not have taken your satisfied comment as anything more than what it is. Your points are very well taken indeed....

Oracle, it's a nice feeling to be "vindicated" isn't it? I loved Thunder Gulch and his sire was the first horse I ever followed, so I hope this fella does well. I'd like to give a shout out to Gulch, who was a real racehorse and had a world of class. I always thought he was underrated and his best son certainly was.

blackthroatedwind · #2 07-08-2006, 10:47 PM

I for one would like to see some of these explosive Pletcher horses actually stick around for a full campaign. That is something we have seen very little of especially as it compares to the number of explosive one time performances ( and sometimes two times ) we see from that barn. There have been literally dozens of impressive maiden winners that have either disappeared or fizzled out badly. Already this year we've seen Octave ( I believe she was declared a future Grade 1 winner on this very board ) finish a horrendous second in just her second start. I am surprised to see someone as knowledgable as Oracle declare that Circle Quay, after just his second start against a highly suspect field, is " great ". Perhaps I totally misunderstood ( wouldn't be the first time ).

" Great " seems to get thrown around just a little too easily in this game these days. Last year at this time we were reading about future TC winner Half Ours. He, shockingly, never ran again. Let's just hold our horses ( I couldn't resist ) before annointing champions in July....especially from a barn that seems to have trouble developing the vast talent it holds.

blackthroatedwind · #3 07-08-2006, 11:03 PM

I just did a cursory glance at the times run at Churchill today in 6F races...

Let's start by saying Circular Quay ran 6F in 1:09.96

In the 5th race a Dale Romans 2YO firster ran 1:10.07

in the 6th race a 4YO 15K claimer, who's previous Beyer figure was 58 and had run in the low 70s early in his career ran 1:10.26

The filly 2YO stake was run in 1:10.50 and the winner, Richwomen, had a troubled trip and had previously run a Beyer of 82.

Circular Quay had a ground saving trip and beat a second time starter who had run a 65 in his debut. Yes, I understand 2YOs can, and do, improve rapidly early in their careers, but in looking at this hard data I have NO idea what people are getting so excited about.

ateamstupid · #4 07-08-2006, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I just did a cursory glance at the times run at Churchill today in 6F races...

Let's start by saying Circular Quay ran 6F in 1:09.96

In the 5th race a Dale Romans 2YO firster ran 1:10.07

in the 6th race a 4YO 15K claimer, who's previous Beyer figure was 58 and had run in the low 70s early in his career ran 1:10.26

The filly 2YO stake was run in 1:10.50 and the winner, Richwomen, had a troubled trip and had previously run a Beyer of 82.

Circular Quay had a ground saving trip and beat a second time starter who had run a 65 in his debut. Yes, I understand 2YOs can, and do, improve rapidly early in their careers, but in looking at this hard data I have NO idea what people are getting so excited about.

For me, it was the way he did it. I couldn't find this horse with International GPS at the 1/8th pole, then all of a sudden he burst up the rail and got there. I don't remember the last 2-year-old I saw close like that.

blackthroatedwind · #5 07-08-2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

For me, it was the way he did it. I couldn't find this horse with International GPS at the 1/8th pole, then all of a sudden he burst up the rail and got there. I don't remember the last 2-year-old I saw close like that.

I would say Play with Fire and Scipion are two Saratoga maiden breakers from the last couple years that come to mind.

I understand that 2YO winners that close show an added dimension that often signifies above average ability but I just don't know what is so special about this horse's performance. And, yes, I do think it can be hard to rally inside horses. However, this horse had a clear path, never had to alter course, and while I am not saying he didn't run OK, I don't see what was even close to spectacular ( or even particularly special ) about today's win.

#6 07-08-2006, 11:25 PM

Quay was impressive today but I think the most impressive performance of the race was the 1 horse Chace City. Not saying that Chace is better than Quay, but watch the replay of the race and keep your eye on the 1. He broke to the left, jumped a rail, ran all over the place and still ran ok.

Now to Quay, he looked very good today. I like to see a horse move up the rail so easily like he did. But keep in mind, the horses were moving pretty slow the last furlong. The horse I think is going to be one of those who looks good against 2 year olds but once everyone matures and catches up to him then he will be left behind. I do want to see the horse go longer, but I think he will be a very very good two year but a so so 3 year old.

#7 07-09-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I just did a cursory glance at the times run at Churchill today in 6F races...

Let's start by saying Circular Quay ran 6F in 1:09.96

In the 5th race a Dale Romans 2YO firster ran 1:10.07

in the 6th race a 4YO 15K claimer, who's previous Beyer figure was 58 and had run in the low 70s early in his career ran 1:10.26

The filly 2YO stake was run in 1:10.50 and the winner, Richwomen, had a troubled trip and had previously run a Beyer of 82.

Circular Quay had a ground saving trip and beat a second time starter who had run a 65 in his debut. Yes, I understand 2YOs can, and do, improve rapidly early in their careers, but in looking at this hard data I have NO idea what people are getting so excited about.

The only intelligent thing written on this thread. I love "the greatest 2yr old in 10 years" comment. Guy needs to watch more races I guess.

ArlJim78 · #8 07-08-2006, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I for one would like to see some of these explosive Pletcher horses actually stick around for a full campaign. That is something we have seen very little of especially as it compares to the number of explosive one time performances ( and sometimes two times ) we see from that barn. There have been literally dozens of impressive maiden winners that have either disappeared or fizzled out badly. Already this year we've seen Octave ( I believe she was declared a future Grade 1 winner on this very board ) finish a horrendous second in just her second start. I am surprised to see someone as knowledgable as Oracle declare that Circle Quay, after just his second start against a highly suspect field, is " great ". Perhaps I totally misunderstood ( wouldn't be the first time ).

" Great " seems to get thrown around just a little too easily in this game these days. Last year at this time we were reading about future TC winner Half Ours. He, shockingly, never ran again. Let's just hold our horses ( I couldn't resist ) before annointing champions in July....especially from a barn that seems to have trouble developing the vast talent it holds.

Maybe its in another thread, in this one I see nothing about this horse being great or annointed as champion. I see comments like "very impressive", "awesome", "crazy good", favorite for BCJ, etc. These seem like appropriate comments given the nature of his wins. Why is it that we have to "hold our horses" anyway. As of this first week in July he is the most exciting two year old that we have to discuss. Most likely the focus will change as we move forward but for now I see no problem singing the praises of this one.

LARHAGE · #9 07-10-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I for one would like to see some of these explosive Pletcher horses actually stick around for a full campaign. That is something we have seen very little of especially as it compares to the number of explosive one time performances ( and sometimes two times ) we see from that barn. There have been literally dozens of impressive maiden winners that have either disappeared or fizzled out badly. Already this year we've seen Octave ( I believe she was declared a future Grade 1 winner on this very board ) finish a horrendous second in just her second start. I am surprised to see someone as knowledgable as Oracle declare that Circle Quay, after just his second start against a highly suspect field, is " great ". Perhaps I totally misunderstood ( wouldn't be the first time ).

" Great " seems to get thrown around just a little too easily in this game these days. Last year at this time we were reading about future TC winner Half Ours. He, shockingly, never ran again. Let's just hold our horses ( I couldn't resist ) before annointing champions in July....especially from a barn that seems to have trouble developing the vast talent it holds.

LOL!!!! The reality is due to his trainer/vet he's just as likely to either drop dead or never run again! Half Ours anyone?

SentToStud · #10 07-10-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

LOL!!!! The reality is due to his trainer/vet he's just as likely to either drop dead or never run again! Half Ours anyone?

That's ridicuous.

You run 1100 horses a year, win 300 or so races including 40-50 stakes races... guess what ... one or more are not going to come back to run well again!!

Really, now...

LARHAGE · #11 07-10-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud

That's ridicuous.

You run 1100 horses a year, win 300 or so races including 40-50 stakes races... guess what ... one or more are not going to come back to run well again!!

Really, now...

And what number would be normal for ''mysterious'' deaths in this operation?