4 in a row for Pletcher both baby races

How about Texas where he won two breeders cup races? Do they count at all?

Originally Posted by oracle80

How about Texas where he won two breeders cup races? Do they count at all?

The guy has a huge stable and ZERO Classic wins. ZERO.

[Danzig]

so does that mean that john servis is a better trainer than todd pletcher? lol puh-leeze!

Originally Posted by Danzig188

so does that mean that john servis is a better trainer than todd pletcher? lol puh-leeze!

Nope. But it does mean Baffert and Lukas are. Puh-leeze!

I laugh at how you guys bash the Cunningham guy for his daddy getting him into the game but you just look past the daddy connection with Pletcher.

[Danzig]

for one, i've never said anything negative to cunningham about anything.
second, i didn't compare pletcher to baffert or lukas, you did. but i think you're path to greatness is to narrow, if it only includes those with a classic win. i'd rather have a trainer who performs day in and day out than someone who gets more lucky than good a couple times a year. and before you pounce, i'm not including either trainer you mentioned in that.
besides, pletcher had a heck of a day and deserves some props for that. sorry you don't care for it.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

so does that mean that john servis is a better trainer than todd pletcher? lol puh-leeze!

Servis is better at taking a quality colt and developing him into a classic winner.

Yes ... yes, he is.

Pletcher is the King Of The MSW Sprints and very good at developing fillies.

But the center ring of this circus is for G1 male horses racing at classic distances on the dirt. And that spotlight never seems to shine on Mr. Pletcher.

Pletcher by far is one of the best trainers in the game today. Of course if you gave his stable to Zito, Mandella, Frankel, Baffert etc etc then the results will be about the same. In this game there are a few races that matter. Those races are triple crown races and breeders cup races. So far Pletcher has a big goose egg in triple crown races and he as a couple of breeder cup wins. But his stable has only been open since 1995. He has a 28% win and 60.8% in the money. But until he can win some triple crown races then he is going to be in the shadow of Zito, Baffert and Lukas. But there is no question he is one of the top trainers in the nation today.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Servis is better at taking a quality colt and developing him into a classic winner.

Yes ... yes, he is.

Pletcher is the King Of The MSW Sprints and very good at developing fillies.

But the center ring of this circus is for G1 male horses racing at classic distances on the dirt. And that spotlight never seems to shine on Mr. Pletcher.

you have got to be kidding. servis was lucky enough to have that horse show up in his stable. he was in the right place at the right time, much like risen stars connections! winning a classic doesn't make you a classic!!
winning a classic race means you're the best?! right. that's like saying derrick cope is a hall of fame driver because he lucked into a daytona 500 win.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

you have got to be kidding. servis was lucky enough to have that horse show up in his stable. he was in the right place at the right time, much like risen stars connections! winning a classic doesn't make you a classic!!
winning a classic race means you're the best?! right. that's like saying derrick cope is a hall of fame driver because he lucked into a daytona 500 win.

See my previous response ... Smarty Jones became a classic champion because of the great job Servis did with him.

There have been lots of colts with the same amount of talent ... but very few became champions like Smarty Jones ... and none of them were trained by Pletcher.

Don't denigrate the great work Servis did ... just to make excuses for Pletcher. Developing a colt into a consistent winner at classic distances is very hard to do ... and no one knows that better than Pletcher.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

See my previous response ... Smarty Jones became a classic champion because of the great job Servis did with him.

There have been lots of colts with the same amount of talent ... but very few became champions like Smarty Jones ... and none of them were trained by Pletcher.

Don't denigrate the great work Servis did ... just to make excuses for Pletcher. Developing a colt into a consistent winner at classic distances is very hard to do ... and no one knows that better than Pletcher.

Pletcher doesn't need any excuses. He's got enough Money Won titles and enough Eclipse Awards to do his talking. Servis... lol. What a fool. I guess Billy Turner is more accomplished as well.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Regardless of how many classics he hasn't won, or who helped him get into the business, he is the best trainer in the country.

He wins a lot of purse money and the top organizations in the business trust him with their first string.

Money and winning are what it is about, and he has figured that out for sure.

I don't care if he hasn't touched a horse in two years, he is the best trainer in this country.

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Mr. Brooklynite (with all due respect )

GET A GRIP............

Comparing "the flavor of the month" to a guy who runs one of the BEST operations I have EVER seen is like comparing all those other fillies to Affectonately.

Hey ... look what the cat just dragged in!

Welcome back, oh mighty one!

Yeah ... he's a terrific trainer ... that's indisputable ... but you better than anyone else should know that training a colt to consistently win G1 races at classic distances isn't something that just falls into your lap. Anyone who does it deserves a lot of credit for achieving it ... even if it only happens once.

But Pletcher hasn't done it ... not even once ... despite enormous opportunites to do so. I don't claim to understand why he hasn't ... I just report the facts, ma'am.

And I'll compare another filly to Affectionately when that filly wins a graded stakes race carrying 137 pounds. That boils it down to Ta Wee ... and I'm not holding my breath until another one like them comes along.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Hey ... look what the cat just dragged in!

Welcome back, oh mighty one!

Yeah ... he's a terrific trainer ... that's indisputable ... but you better than anyone else should know that training a colt to consistently win G1 races at classic distances isn't something that just falls into your lap. Anyone who does it deserves a lot of credit for achieving it ... even if it only happens once.

But Pletcher hasn't done it ... not even once ... despite enormous opportunites to do so. I don't claim to understand why he hasn't ... I just report the facts, ma'am.

And I'll compare another filly to Affectionately when that filly wins a graded stakes race carrying 137 pounds. That boils it down to Ta Wee ... and I'm not holding my breath until another one like them comes along.

enoromuos opportunities.. yes.. based on the number of runners he's sent to TC races.. but really, how many of those runners.. especially Derby runners, really were legit contenders in the big dance?

[Cajungator26]

I'll bet that Pletcher wins a triple crown race next year.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I'll bet that Pletcher wins a triple crown race next year.

No doubt it will eventually happen.. and when it does, he could win 'em in bunches!!

[jpops757]

Does anyone think all these owners with the million dollar babies are sending them to Pletcher because he cant win a TC rACE? Whos the best? There is room for all and if you prefere on to the other that proves why there is room for all in tis game. I love a trainer like Cody Autry that consistantly claims horses for 5-10k and moves them up and wins. When he attracts a owner with a nice stble of younguns he could be a force but untill then he will find his niche and be a great trainer in what he does. None of the top trainers need to be dissed they all have earned there way. Some specialize, turfers. routers, sprinters,babies, or olderhorses.All make mistakes but they attract there clientel for a reason. This place would be very dull if we only had plain vanilla icecream.

Originally Posted by jpops757

Does anyone think all these owners with the million dollar babies are sending them to Pletcher because he cant win a TC rACE? Whos the best? There is room for all and if you prefere on to the other that proves why there is room for all in tis game. I love a trainer like Cody Autry that consistantly claims horses for 5-10k and moves them up and wins. When he attracts a owner with a nice stble of younguns he could be a force but untill then he will find his niche and be a great trainer in what he does. None of the top trainers need to be dissed they all have earned there way. Some specialize, turfers. routers, sprinters,babies, or olderhorses.All make mistakes but they attract there clientel for a reason. This place would be very dull if we only had plain vanilla icecream.

I would give him mine if I had a great 2yr old. I would also look at Tagg and Matz. The fact is Pletcher ran second this year, the horse that beat him was a great horse. Barbaro's performance was one of the best in the history of the race. If Pletcher was going backwards I would criticize him but obviously he is getting closer.

Originally Posted by boldruler

I would give him mine if I had a great 2yr old. I would also look at Tagg and Matz. The fact is Pletcher ran second this year, the horse that beat him was a great horse. Barbaro's performance was one of the best in the history of the race. If Pletcher was going backwards I would criticize him but obviously he is getting closer.

His work with colts in the past couple of years has definitely been improving. Some day he'll probably get there ... and train one or more colts to be consistent winners at classic distances .... so let's hold the goo-gooing until he does ... then go as ga-ga as we choose to.

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Well BOSS, I'll leave the TP schmooz alone. I do not know the guy, but the job he is doing makes me tired just thinkin aboud it.

Then you must be getting old ...

... 'cause you never got tired watching Hirsch Jacobs ... when you were 50 years younger. In fact ... Hirsch probably got tired watching you!