NBC receives mail from shooter

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

You simply don't know what you are talking about...nor do many of the TV talking heads. There is a legal process to commit someone...the paperwork which they speak of is simply part of said process. If you read (and comprehend) my earlier post, I tried to make it clear...you can't hospitalize someone against their will without certain legal criteria being met, and hospital personnel must obey the law like everyone else...if the law says they must be discharged then there is no choice! Reporters, unless they have a background in MH, don't understand this...obviously, you don't either! As a MH professional, I have done paperwork to hospitalize patients, worked with MH patients in the hospital, and worked with the legal system regarding all aspects of hospitalization. With the confidentiality laws in place today, it is quite possible that his parents had no idea concerning the extent of his psychosis, same with the school!

Somer is absolutely correct. It is nearly impossible to have someone commmitted to a mental hospital. It doesn't matter how crazy they are. A psychitarist has no legal authority to commit someone to a mental institute. The only way someone can be committed is if the person is an immiminent threat to himself or others. That means that the person would have to be making verbal threats of an imminent nature. In other words, they would have to say that they were going to either kill themselves or kill someone else to be held. Otherwise, the person cannot be held.

With regard to the two girls that he was bothering, there is no evidence that he did anything that could have given him a felony conviction. He was bothering these two girls, but there is no evidence that he threathened them in any way. He was told to leave them alone and he did. There was no felony committed.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

SOMER,GO AHEAD AND GET PERSONAL.Did I mention your name.I spoke generally about the mental health situation in this country.You give excuse after excuse,and try to change the subject to me etc.,but when it is all said and done,the worst Doctors in this country are Psychiatrists.They can't judge them on how well they do at getting people better.Why? Too few of them are good.IF THEY WERE WORTH A DAMN,Tom Cruise would never be able to say what he does.The fact is that these "professionals" generally do not get results,and if they did ,then people wouldn't wonder if Psychiatry works at all.Right now,it's a damn good question.For the most part,Psychiatrists in this country are getting paid without producing results.This field,and politics are the 2 fields that you don't have to get results in (to get paid.) You can say what you want about me,but the mental health industry in this country is pathetic.Simply pathetic.If you have an ill family member,or friend,you will see this too.For the typical mental health patient in this country,do you know how they test? They f'n don't.They ask the patient questions.Patient can say whatever they want to say about what is going on with them.That's the level of testing going on here.O.K...We are f'n talkin' paper cup n' string here.Then they start trying meds on them,and they don't usually do a damn thing,and usually make them worse.Then,after a while the Psychiatrist says we tried it all.You fkd up beyond repair.You are stable.That's enough.O.K.,HOW MANY ACTUAL DIAGNOSTIC TESTS HAVE I MENTIONED???.......That's right.......zero.........nada.

[GenuineRisk]

With the exception of serial killers, child molesters, and a few others, I'm reluctant to call someone "evil," especially someone clearly exhibiting mental illness. And mental illness is a tough thing- I think there's a fallacy in thinking mental illnesses are "curable." I think some are treatable, or controllable, but I think most are probably not curable. And it's hard to force someone to take medication or go to therapy. I've had manic-depressive friends who start taking medication, become very high-functioning, lovely people, and then stop taking it because they don't feel they need it, or they prefer the way they felt before. I want to shake them and say, "How can you not see how much the medication was helping? What's wrong with you?" But they just don't process the world the way I do.

So I don't know- I guess it's human nature to want right away to find someone to blame, and figure out what the "lesson" from the experience is, but sometimes I think terrible, awful things happen because they do. Which is horrible, and breaks hearts and leaves people behind to grieve and wonder why. And it leaves us feeling out of control of our world, which is scary. Is there a purpose or meaning behind it? Maybe; I don't know. But I don't think it was because this kid was evil. Messed up, without a doubt. But not evil.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

With the exception of serial killers, child molesters, and a few others, I'm reluctant to call someone "evil," especially someone clearly exhibiting mental illness. And mental illness is a tough thing- I think there's a fallacy in thinking mental illnesses are "curable." I think some are treatable, or controllable, but I think most are probably not curable. And it's hard to force someone to take medication or go to therapy. I've had manic-depressive friends who start taking medication, become very high-functioning, lovely people, and then stop taking it because they don't feel they need it, or they prefer the way they felt before. I want to shake them and say, "How can you not see how much the medication was helping? What's wrong with you?" But they just don't process the world the way I do.

So I don't know- I guess it's human nature to want right away to find someone to blame, and figure out what the "lesson" from the experience is, but sometimes I think terrible, awful things happen because they do. Which is horrible, and breaks hearts and leaves people behind to grieve and wonder why. And it leaves us feeling out of control of our world, which is scary. Is there a purpose or meaning behind it? Maybe; I don't know. But I don't think it was because this kid was evil. Messed up, without a doubt. But not evil.

O.K.,then just let nurses do it.If they don't help people very much(and I think in the great majority of cases they do not get results,)then put the doctors to use doing something else.Why have them riding a desk and giving out useless meds? A good nurse can do this......Right? Like I said ,they don't get results,but get paid like other doctors (that actually get something done.)

[Cajungator26]

Well, how do we know for a fact that this kid wasn't evil? Just playing devil's advocate here.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Well, how do we know for a fact that this kid wasn't evil? Just playing devil's advocate here.

For the most part,what you call evil people(PSYCHPATHS,OR SOCIOPATHS) are highly manipulative individuals.They certainly do talk to people.They manipulate the hell out of them..Be great if they were shy.

[Danzig]

if evil doesn't apply to someone who cold-bloodedly shoots down people, killing 32, then i don't suppose it would apply to anyone. i'd say knowing about his writing, his garbage he put together that morning and sent to nbc--well, i feel comfortable calling that evil-just like ted bundy was evil.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Danzig

if evil doesn't apply to someone who cold-bloodedly shoots down people, killing 32, then i don't suppose it would apply to anyone. i'd say knowing about his writing, his garbage he put together that morning and sent to nbc--well, i feel comfortable calling that evil-just like ted bundy was evil.

Kinda how I saw it too, Deb... I'm not a psychiatrist, though.