Ann Coulter: Name-caller

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

A bit more about her "spread". Go wide Annie!
http://www.opednews.com/articles/ope...itches_pos.htm

I admit that she's far far over the line but as your original link pointed out...there are folks like Al Franken (sp?) on the left who are just as bad. I don't think we'll ever again witness a political contest that focuses on issues rather than people...and that's the sad thing, not the rantings of an individual!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I admit that she's far far over the line but as your original link pointed out...there are folks like Al Franken (sp?) on the left who are just as bad. I don't think we'll ever again witness a political contest that focuses on issues rather than people...and that's the sad thing, not the rantings of an individual!

SF, You might be correct in your assessment.
I know I didn't put the words into her mouth, nor did I choose to speak to the audience where it was played.
To me, it is indeed sad when intelligent debate goes to "name calling", but what's to be expected when current policies are indefensible?
I'm ready for the impeachment proceedings to begin, then the war crimes trials. Leave out Al Franken...let's hold the real culprits to accountability.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

SF, You might be correct in your assessment.
I know I didn't put the words into her mouth, nor did I choose to speak to the audience where it was played.
To me, it is indeed sad when intelligent debate goes to "name calling", but what's to be expected when current policies are indefensible?
I'm ready for the impeachment proceedings to begin, then the war crimes trials. Leave out Al Franken...let's hold the real culprits to accountability.

The only difference between guys like Al and the Bush folks is that one is in power, the other isn't!

[Downthestretch55]

SF,
Here's a link to Tom's blog. I think more like him than I do Annie.
http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com/

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

SF,
Here's a link to Tom's blog. I think more like him than I do Annie.
http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com/

Same type of rhetoric...disgusting! The worst thing that could happen to this country would be the prosecution of a President for anything remotely political, Nixon broke the criminal law of this country and he was rightly pardoned...talk of criminal action against Bush is only a small step above talk of assassination...not a road civilized folks in a democracy should ever travel...this is the rhetoric of a third world country where the basic concepts of freedom are new and misunderstood and an affront to this great nation...shameful!!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Same type of rhetoric...disgusting! The worst thing that could happen to this country would be the prosecution of a President for anything remotely political, Nixon broke the criminal law of this country and he was rightly pardoned...talk of criminal action against Bush is only a small step above talk of assassination...not a road civilized folks in a democracy should ever travel...this is the rhetoric of a third world country where the basic concepts of freedom are new and misunderstood and an affront to this great nation...shameful!!

Shameful? Disgusting? Huh?
"I am a uniter, not a divider."
'NUF said.

[somerfrost]

And DTS, all you have to do is check out the thread here on Hillary...the degree of hatred shown this woman already...if she does become President, what do you think these right-wing types will be saying then? Do you really think personal attacks are good for our society???

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

And DTS, all you have to do is check out the thread here on Hillary...the degree of hatred shown this woman already...if she does become President, what do you think these right-wing types will be saying then? Do you really think personal attacks are good for our society???

Good question SF.
I'll just say that both sides make plenty of excuses. And, as you said, one is in power, the other isn't.
So...
It seems to me that the ones in power have to come up with much more valid excuses than the ones that aren't.
There's plenty of hatred going on...from both sides.
Now, here is Ann's excuse...she was trying to be funny.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...he_weeken.html

To me, I don't see much humor in name calling, inciting hatred, killing innocents, nor waging wars of choice.
In my humble view, this used to be a great country before the excusers got a death grip on it. The shame is that we have reaped what we have sewn.
Did you catch any of the excuses that have been offered to the wounded vets at Walter Reed?
Let's hold those that took away liberties, care for the wounded, waged hegemonous wars in the name of "protection", and other high crimes and misdemeanors accountable for their actions.
Enough is enough.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Good question SF.
I'll just say that both sides make plenty of excuses. And, as you said, one is in power, the other isn't.
So...
It seems to me that the ones in power have to come up with much more valid excuses than the ones that aren't.
There's plenty of hatred going on...from both sides.
Now, here is Ann's excuse...she was trying to be funny.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...he_weeken.html

To me, I don't see much humor in name calling, inciting hatred, killing innocents, nor waging wars of choice.
In my humble view, this used to be a great country before the excusers got a death grip on it. The shame is that we have reaped what we have sewn.
Did you catch any of the excuses that have been offered to the wounded vets at Walter Reed?
Let's hold those that took away liberties, care for the wounded, waged hegemonous wars in the name of "protection", and other high crimes and misdemeanors accountable for their actions.
Enough is enough.

I don't disagree regarding responsibility but...the way to deal with this mess is to debate the issues and elect a capable person to office (White House as well as Congress)...Bush and his excuse-makers should be "punished" by being voted out of office, history will have the conclusive say on his Presidency. My problem is this talk of Impeachment and worse...dangerous! Remember that the Republican zealots tried to remove a President from office for his sexual behavior...we simply don't need that kind of hate-mongering! If there is direct and compelling evidence that a crime was committed, then that's another matter but as much as we may disagree with the decisions made, that's not grounds for screwing with the Constitution...there is a reason why no President has been removed from office! The Vet thing is shameful...absolutely shameful! But I doubt it's the personal responsibility of the President. Iraq is a mess...but both parties agreed to the war and all the name calling doesn't replace action to change direction...and that action still hasn't happened! Personal liberties vs protection from Terrorism is a debatable subject, where should the lines be drawn? I think this Administration has gone way to far but again...that's not criminal, it's political! Congress could have forcefully addressed this issue and it did...it sided with the Administration despite the rhetoric! Do we remove Senators and Congresspersons from office? Do we charge everyone in office with "war crimes"? We the people have the power to correct this mess by demanding standards, demanding debate not name-calling, and voting for competent leaders...we get what we deserve quite frankly!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I admit that she's far far over the line but as your original link pointed out...there are folks like Al Franken (sp?) on the left who are just as bad. I don't think we'll ever again witness a political contest that focuses on issues rather than people...and that's the sad thing, not the rantings of an individual!

Somer, I don't think Franken ever advocated murdering the leaders of soverign nations and converting their leaders forcibly to Christianity. If you would be so kind, please find specifics of things he's said that you find particularly egregious and I'll be happy to find egregious comments by Coulter and you can let me know which you think is worse. I think you'll find it hard to find anything he's said that compares with what comes out of her mouth. Which, I'm sure, is why she gets more press. Americans love a freak show.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Somer, I don't think Franken ever advocated murdering the leaders of soverign nations and converting their leaders forcibly to Christianity. If you would be so kind, please find specifics of things he's said that you find particularly egregious and I'll be happy to find egregious comments by Coulter and you can let me know which you think is worse. I think you'll find it hard to find anything he's said that compares with what comes out of her mouth. Which, I'm sure, is why she gets more press. Americans love a freak show.

Franken is a dope and I think it's great he's running for senator, afterall he won't have time to act anymore which is a plus. I love actors they think they know better than the american public, over inflated feeling of self worth. Yeah, you're on TV, in movies, or the theatre....who really gives a $#@ what you think.

Now Mahr didn't advocate murder just agreed if Cheney was dead it'd be a good thing.

Coulter is a dope too....I read this board and it's so evident why nothing ever gets done. It's more important being correct than making the world better. No different than the people on here.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dr. fager

Franken is a dope and I think it's great he's running for senator, afterall he won't have time to act anymore which is a plus. I love actors they think they know better than the american public, over inflated feeling of self worth. Yeah, you're on TV, in movies, or the theatre....who really gives a $#@ what you think.

Now Mahr didn't advocate murder just agreed if Cheney was dead it'd be a good thing.

Coulter is a dope too....I read this board and it's so evident why nothing ever gets done. It's more important being correct than making the world better. No different than the people on here.

Franken's a writer, not an actor. A comedian, too, but I'd mostly classify him as a writer. I think he's really smart.

Though I don't think the film and TV arts missed Reagan or Gopher all that much. Glad Clint came back, though.

I don't know, Dr. Fager-- I enjoyed reading Somer and DTS's dialogue in this thread. Yes, often people get locked into "I must win" but I often see discussions go in directions I wouldn't expect here. I like to think of the OT board as a 21st century version of the 19th century salon.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Somer, I don't think Franken ever advocated murdering the leaders of soverign nations and converting their leaders forcibly to Christianity. If you would be so kind, please find specifics of things he's said that you find particularly egregious and I'll be happy to find egregious comments by Coulter and you can let me know which you think is worse. I think you'll find it hard to find anything he's said that compares with what comes out of her mouth. Which, I'm sure, is why she gets more press. Americans love a freak show.

I think you are missing my point....folks on both sides routinely are engaging in what I consider hate speech and personal attacks, I'm not sure what could be gained by judging who is "the worst"...it's all bad...shameful and dangerous! In the 50's...if you disagreed with someone, you accused them of being a Communist and lives were destroyed, Dr King was called all sorts of names and his sex life the subject of J Edgar Hoover's interest (which, considering JEH's lifestyle...well, you know), Malcolm X was called a "terrorist" by mainstream media....go back further in history and folks were tortured and murdered cause someone called them a "witch"...the list is long and all of history contains examples of this folly...rather than debate differences and respect same, attack and accuse....worked for Hitler, Pol Pot and apparently the leaders of Sudan and now Iraq. This nation is becoming more divided every day and the rhetoric more and more vicious...there's a storm coming!!!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I think you are missing my point....folks on both sides routinely are engaging in what I consider hate speech and personal attacks, I'm not sure what could be gained by judging who is "the worst"...it's all bad...shameful and dangerous! In the 50's...if you disagreed with someone, you accused them of being a Communist and lives were destroyed, Dr King was called all sorts of names and his sex life the subject of J Edgar Hoover's interest (which, considering JEH's lifestyle...well, you know), Malcolm X was called a "terrorist" by mainstream media....go back further in history and folks were tortured and murdered cause someone called them a "witch"...the list is long and all of history contains examples of this folly...rather than debate differences and respect same, attack and accuse....worked for Hitler, Pol Pot and apparently the leaders of Sudan and now Iraq. This nation is becoming more divided every day and the rhetoric more and more vicious...there's a storm coming!!!

Somer, I applaud and admire your passion for a kinder world, but I get tired of the hateful, awful, bigoted things flung around by the likes of Coulter and Limbaugh getting dismissed with, "Oh, liberals are just as bad." Because I really don't believe they are-- I don't hear anything coming out of leading liberal commentators that rivals the filth that Coulter spews. And it's probably why she makes more money, because, as I said, America loves a freak show. If you can find things from liberal commentators on the level of Coulter or Limbaugh that equals the things she's said, please post it. (Not the crazy blogger with an audience of six- we'll be here until the end of time if we start doing that). Otherwise, I think Coulter occupies a very special place in the "Making money by promoting hatred" Department.

Regarding the attacks on "Communists" and Martin Luther King-- was it liberals or conservatives that led those movements? Your examples aren't helping the "liberals are just as bad" argument.

Somer, believe it or not, political discourse has been this ugly in the US before-- check out the late 1800's. Whenever the divide between rich and poor gets great, the discourse gets uglier, because the haves must figure out a way to keep the have-nots voting for them. And there's nothing like morality and personal attacks to get people to vote against their own economic interests. From the NYTimes (I'll post the link, too), about the AMT:

<<Meanwhile the stated goal of the original tax is not being met under the successor tax enacted 21 years ago. A far greater number of well-off families still pay only small amounts of tax. More than 41,000 taxpayers with incomes of $200,000 or more in 2003, the last year for which figures are available, paid less than 10 percent of their income in individual income taxes. And the number of untaxed high-income families — once 155 — grew to 2,824.>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/we...ew&oref=slogin

And yet, people on this board claim the wealthy are currently "taking it on the chin" and continute to vote for policies that keep the wealthy paying less tax than I do. Go figure.

Hugs to you for your always thought-provoking, kind posts.

[Downthestretch55]

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns.
Some comments remind me of an exchange I had with a third grader once.
Q: Did you call --- a name?
A: Johnny did too, so did Max, so did Mary....
Q: Wait a minute, the question was "Did you call --- a name?"
A: Uhhh...fade to silence.

It fascinates that avoidance behavior, once learned, is played again and again.

Bill Mahr said...
Al Franken said...
On and on....

So, back to Ann Coulter....
She laughed about her remarks.
A PA newspaper has withdrawn her column.
Verizon no longer has their sponsorship on her web page.
Mitt, John Mc, and Rudy have spoken against her attacks, labeling them as "offensive".
Many Conservatives have also denounced her words.

This opinion says more:
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news....d=576361&rfi=6

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns.
Some comments remind me of an exchange I had with a third grader once.
Q: Did you call --- a name?
A: Johnny did too, so did Max, so did Mary....
Q: Wait a minute, the question was "Did you call --- a name?"
A: Uhhh...fade to silence.

It fascinates that avoidance behavior, once learned, is played again and again.

Bill Mahr said...
Al Franken said...
On and on....

So, back to Ann Coulter....
She laughed about her remarks.
A PA newspaper has withdrawn her column.
Verizon no longer has their sponsorship on her web page.
Mitt, John Mc, and Rudy have spoken against her attacks, labeling them as "offensive".
Many Conservatives have also denounced her words.

This opinion says more:
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news....d=576361&rfi=6

DTS,
Please don't take my remarks as an attempt to "justify" the ugly rhetoric of Coulter...you know how I feel about her ideology, I'm simply pointing out that falling into the trap of personal attacks and hate speech only clouds the important issues of the day. History will judge Bush, it is counterproductive to spend time attacking him...better to put forth workable solutions to the mess we are in! Attacking those in power is a poor substitute for regaining that power and making meaningful change...I hate seeing folks get sidetracked in this way! Coulter and those like her will self-destruct (as you pointed out above) as long as the discussion doesn't drop to her level...at that point, she actually gains credibility!

Mahr, Coulter and Franken are all of the same ilk.
They love attention.

Mahr gets his little crowd together so they can all clap for him and make him seem so insightful and sly. Franken was made famous by another major dip on FOX who tried to sue him (how stupid can a man like Bill OReilly be, or it just a bad temper?). And Coulter is pure acid.

All of these people love to create divisions thru attention. They must have an audience and be devisive to have any sort of self worth.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

DTS,
Please don't take my remarks as an attempt to "justify" the ugly rhetoric of Coulter...you know how I feel about her ideology, I'm simply pointing out that falling into the trap of personal attacks and hate speech only clouds the important issues of the day. History will judge Bush, it is counterproductive to spend time attacking him...better to put forth workable solutions to the mess we are in! Attacking those in power is a poor substitute for regaining that power and making meaningful change...I hate seeing folks get sidetracked in this way! Coulter and those like her will self-destruct (as you pointed out above) as long as the discussion doesn't drop to her level...at that point, she actually gains credibility!

Somer,
First, I wasn't attempting to use your remarks incorrectly.
I enjoy exchanging ideas with you. I respect your views, and though I don't agree with all of them, you present them clearly and intelligently.
My comment was regarding all the twists this thread has taken.
Everything you said from "I'm simply"...on, I agree completely.
Consider this, in order to regain power, is it not important to demonstrate that those currently holding it have abused it and no longer deserve it?
To me, that's the first step towards change.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Somer, I applaud and admire your passion for a kinder world, but I get tired of the hateful, awful, bigoted things flung around by the likes of Coulter and Limbaugh getting dismissed with, "Oh, liberals are just as bad." Because I really don't believe they are-- I don't hear anything coming out of leading liberal commentators that rivals the filth that Coulter spews. And it's probably why she makes more money, because, as I said, America loves a freak show. If you can find things from liberal commentators on the level of Coulter or Limbaugh that equals the things she's said, please post it. (Not the crazy blogger with an audience of six- we'll be here until the end of time if we start doing that). Otherwise, I think Coulter occupies a very special place in the "Making money by promoting hatred" Department.

Regarding the attacks on "Communists" and Martin Luther King-- was it liberals or conservatives that led those movements? Your examples aren't helping the "liberals are just as bad" argument.

Somer, believe it or not, political discourse has been this ugly in the US before-- check out the late 1800's. Whenever the divide between rich and poor gets great, the discourse gets uglier, because the haves must figure out a way to keep the have-nots voting for them. And there's nothing like morality and personal attacks to get people to vote against their own economic interests. From the NYTimes (I'll post the link, too), about the AMT:

<<Meanwhile the stated goal of the original tax is not being met under the successor tax enacted 21 years ago. A far greater number of well-off families still pay only small amounts of tax. More than 41,000 taxpayers with incomes of $200,000 or more in 2003, the last year for which figures are available, paid less than 10 percent of their income in individual income taxes. And the number of untaxed high-income families — once 155 — grew to 2,824.>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/we...ew&oref=slogin

And yet, people on this board claim the wealthy are currently "taking it on the chin" and continute to vote for policies that keep the wealthy paying less tax than I do. Go figure.

Hugs to you for your always thought-provoking, kind posts.

GR,
Actually, a lot of so-called liberals joined the "commie search" to distance themselves from those further left, Bobby and J. F. Kennedy were in positions of power when the attacks on Dr King took place...hard to believe they couldn't have curbed JEH if they so desired. Again, my point isn't which side is worse...it's that we ALL need to rise above such behavior if we are ever to make changes! I've often said, the only thing I dislike more than liberal ideology is conservative ideology...but both have valid points.