Trainer Quotes from Monday's action

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Nothing I love more than reading quotes from trainers....

I get as much joy and laughter from reading them as most kids get from comic strips.

Of course, I will offer my translation of what they really mean

We will start with Larry Jones, trainer of Hard Spun.

"The outside post really hurt Hard Spun. Losing all that ground was part of it, but worse, he was out there on the deepest part of the racetrack the entire race. I went over the charts of the weekend races, and it was obvious there was a real inside speed bias."

"A horse like True Tails, who always digs her feet into the ground at the eighth-pole, kept going. As did my filly Street Minstrel. She had been stopping in all her races. This time, the racetrack carried her home."

"All I'm asking for is a level playing field, and I didn't get one in the Southwest. Unless I see some changes, I may go elsewhere. I'm not saying we'll definitely go somewhere else, but don't be surprised if we do. We will nominate to the Blue Grass (S. [G1] on April 14 at Keeneland) and the Lane's End (S. [G2] on March 24 at Turfway Park), and Mr. (Rick) Porter (owner of Fox Hill Farm) always has wanted to go the Wood Memorial (S. [G1] on April 7 at Aqueduct) route."

"He'll go back to the track on Friday, and then just have easy morning gallops. He got a lot out of the Southwest. He doesn't need a lot of training now. He did come back from the Southwest a tired horse. He drank a bucket and a half of water. But he's fine now. And you'll see a better Hard Spun next time. He's still the same Hard Spun. He's a good horse."

Translation: My rider and myself weren't smart enough to notice, BEFORE THE RACE, that the inside part of the track seemed to be offering better footing and speed seemed to be carrying.

Perhaps if I complain enough, and threaten to go elsewhere, Oaklawn Park's track superintendant might possibly go out of his way to make the track favor outside/closers in the Rebal Stakes. That way my clueless self, and my clueless rider can outsmart ourselves again. And when our horse draws an inside post and reverts back to his front-running style, we can blame the loss on the dead-rail, anti-speed nature of the track.


And now we move on to the legendary Wayne Lukas and his 107 Beyer maiden winner from Oaklawn Park on Monday.

For whatever it's worth, I put this horse in my stablemail before he ever ran, because his mother won her debut, at 27/1 odds, in last-to-first fashion, with a good figure. I have this crazed belief that foals of dams who run big at 1st asking, often also exceed expectations in that situation.

Anyway, onto Lukas.....

"Anybody who saw my horse run has to know this is a real racehorse. He was running into 30-mile-an-hour head winds down the backstretch, and still got a half in :45. And the scary thing is that he's going to be a much better two-turn horse."

"I know it's a big step from a maiden race to a graded stake, but I believe this horse can do it. Sure, he'll be stepping into the deep end of the pool, but I have confidence in his abilities."

Translation: I am a deranged old man who will rush this horse, and try to get him into the Kentucky Derby at all costs. My vanity means more to me than doing what is in the best interest for my talented, lightly raced horse.

If any horse really deserves to be in our prayers, it's probably that one!

What ive never heard a Trainer say" BOY I REALLY SUCK AT THIS JOB" Myself included

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Instead of the complaining and "wanting a fair shake" Wouldn't it have been much better to hear something informed and sensible from Jones?......like the following....


'I take full blame for Hard Spun running off the board. Not because of any mistake I made in training, but because I was so caught up in what was going on with my own horses, that I didn't realize until after the fact that the inside path of the racetrack seemed to offer better footing, and the speed was really carrying.'

'You know, my horse had won all four of his career races in wire-to-wire fashion coming into the race. I really wanted to take him off-the-pace today, make him show us a new dimension and really get something out of this race.'

'If I had known what was happening on the track, I would have instructed my rider to use a little more of our horses natural speed.'

'You know, earlier on in the card, at the same distance as our race, a horse named Uptothesky set fractions of 23.67 and 47.27 and still went wire-to-wire against bottom level, N2L claimers. That horse had run Beyers of 49 and 20 in his last two starts! And, it's not like he's a run-off speed horse, in fact, he's laid 4th in four of his last five races...all of which in route races'

'Meanwhile, Our horse was rating in 5th place off of fractions of 23.68 and 47.90! That 23/1 shot who won, not only was the track playing kind to him, but he was unchallenged and going slower than bottom level, N2L claimers, at the same distance earlier on in the card.'

'We beat the winner by 9 lengths one month prior. He will never beat us again. I picked the wrong race to expieriment and I should have been paying more attention to the races run earlier in the day.'

OK, I'm asking way too much.

[MisterB]

I wouldn't talk to anyone about my horse. The public has no clue what it takes to train one, and I am not in the mood to school them. I would probrably say, go buy one, get a trainers licence, and then come back and see me.
Why is it that Luckas's past assistants still praise the man? Simple, they respect the Hall of Famer


Over $241,000,000 in eranings
Must have done something right

[philcski]

Your translations pretty much summed it up perfectly.

MisterB, Lukas has been notorious thoroughout his career for running his horses into the ground, particularly in the case of the Classics. Have you not forgotten about his last Derby stater, the debacle known as Going Wild?

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by philcski

Your translations pretty much summed it up perfectly.

MisterB, Lukas has been notorious thoroughout his career for running his horses into the ground, particularly in the case of the Classics. Have you not forgotten about his last Derby stater, the debacle known as Going Wild?

Back when a horse was a horse, they didn't run 5-8 races and fold up like a wet paper towel. Head to the Breeding shed, with 50 million from some Arab. The problem, not just DW, it's all over the place, due to a poor breed of horses. These pin hookers, and salesmen, look for speed, and that's what they try to sell now. You get junk to start with, that's not the trainers fault, it's the Crazed breeder, breeding bad blood, which will never turn back now. They are breeding criples, and slow breeds now, not quaility horses. I would not by a yearling if you gave me the money.

The only good blood, may lie with the Phipps family.
and that's iffy

Barbero is another example, Gostzapper, and the list goes on. Todd breaks them down too, plus many others.

[Samarta]

Never a good thing when a trainer admits after a Derby prep race that he didn't pay any attention to the track conditions which resulted in his horse not having a chance to win.....

Yeah it's not Lukas' fault that his horses typically breakdown and/or deteriorate to a dried up turd with four legs.

Originally Posted by MisterB

I wouldn't talk to anyone about my horse. The public has no clue what it takes to train one, and I am not in the mood to school them. I would probrably say, go buy one, get a trainers licence, and then come back and see me.
Why is it that Luckas's past assistants still praise the man? Simple, they respect the Hall of Famer


Over $241,000,000 in eranings
Must have done something right

my 2 cents worth which is worth nothing i feel my job is to get the horse to the track in the best condition for that race. it is my jockeys job & responsibility to study the race & to know track conditions.
After the race i will listen to what the jockey has to say & not comment at all to the jockey or tv untill i have had a chance to study the Replay.
There are so many varablies that can happen that it would be impossible to comment & believe me there are times when ive wanted to drag a jock from the horse but sometimes you have to remember we are all human & there is no benifit blasting anything after the race has been run.Best to save it for the Stewards

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Instead of the complaining and "wanting a fair shake" Wouldn't it have been much better to hear something informed and sensible from Jones?......like the following....


'I take full blame for Hard Spun running off the board. Not because of any mistake I made in training, but because I was so caught up in what was going on with my own horses, that I didn't realize until after the fact that the inside path of the racetrack seemed to offer better footing, and the speed was really carrying.'

'You know, my horse had won all four of his career races in wire-to-wire fashion coming into the race. I really wanted to take him off-the-pace today, make him show us a new dimension and really get something out of this race.'

'If I had known what was happening on the track, I would have instructed my rider to use a little more of our horses natural speed.'

'You know, earlier on in the card, at the same distance as our race, a horse named Uptothesky set fractions of 23.67 and 47.27 and still went wire-to-wire against bottom level, N2L claimers. That horse had run Beyers of 49 and 20 in his last two starts! And, it's not like he's a run-off speed horse, in fact, he's laid 4th in four of his last five races...all of which in route races'

'Meanwhile, Our horse was rating in 5th place off of fractions of 23.68 and 47.90! That 23/1 shot who won, not only was the track playing kind to him, but he was unchallenged and going slower than bottom level, N2L claimers, at the same distance earlier on in the card.'

'We beat the winner by 9 lengths one month prior. He will never beat us again. I picked the wrong race to expieriment and I should have been paying more attention to the races run earlier in the day.'

OK, I'm asking way too much.

He had the outside post. Should he have scratched? I watched that race a few times, I would like to know how Hard Spun was supposed to get to the rail before the stretch run in which he was very tired. From my view it would have been very difficult.

But I understand what you are saying about the trainers comments. Just dont think they really had a chance to get him to the rail without going thru horses, especially with the poor start. The winner ran well but you are not going to find a much better trip, cant take that away from him but not sold on exactly how good he his. Officer Rocket looks like he could like the mile and a quarter.

[brianwspencer]

Officer Rocket managed to run a decent race on the outside in the stretch.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

The point of preps is to prep. No you shouldn't scratch. There will be bad post positions in the Derby as well. What you should do is attempt to run the best race possible for the conditions. They showed that they had done no preparation relative to racing the horse. A close second with the best trip you could make from that post position would have been nice. How about a ground saving trip even if you have to compromise you distance from the leader a little bit. Save ground run where the track bias tells you to run and then see what you get in the stretch.

[MisterB]

Don't you think you need better reason to scratch a horse, than a post position. The stewarts would have their hands full of whinners, and complainers.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Don't you think you need better reason to scratch a horse, than a post position. The stewarts would have their hands full of whinners, and complainers.

Wasn't a scratch, because of Post Position, the reason Teuflesburg ended up in this race?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Don't you think you need better reason to scratch a horse, than a post position. The stewarts would have their hands full of whinners, and complainers.

Not in a stake, no reason necessary up to 45 mins to post

Originally Posted by pgardn

He had the outside post. Should he have scratched? I watched that race a few times, I would like to know how Hard Spun was supposed to get to the rail before the stretch run in which he was very tired. From my view it would have been very difficult.

But I understand what you are saying about the trainers comments. Just dont think they really had a chance to get him to the rail without going thru horses, especially with the poor start. The winner ran well but you are not going to find a much better trip, cant take that away from him but not sold on exactly how good he his. Officer Rocket looks like he could like the mile and a quarter.

What I don't get is the horse breaks 2nd last and then proceeds to take a bad step. When they settle (5-10 strides out of the gate), he's 2nd last, outrun about 3 lengths, and widest of all.

Now, HTF is he supposed to take advantage of the bias from there? Assuming that the trainer and jock were aware of the bias. He has ZERO chance of getting the lead and ZERO chance of getting inside.

Now, what exactly was the criticism against the trainer?

[packerbacker7964]

Yeah but my god post 9 at Oaklawn Park is not anything close to being as bad as post 14-19 at the Hill in May. Horse plain and simple has had everything his way so far. Show me something in a race where you had to overcome and then we'll talk Mr. Jones.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by pgardn

He had the outside post. Should he have scratched? I watched that race a few times, I would like to know how Hard Spun was supposed to get to the rail before the stretch run in which he was very tired. From my view it would have been very difficult.

Believe me, the pace was so slow in that race, that Hard Spun certainly could have cleared.

To really get an idea of how slow the fractions were, go take a look at Uptothesky's form in race 3. He's basically a slowpoke, coming off of a 7th place finish in a 7.5K N2L life race last out--and a 8th beaten 23 lengths in a 5K N2L life two starts back.

Also, in four of his last five starts, he rated in 4th early on while going a route of ground.

He won wire-to-wire setting faster fractions than the Southwest winner.

Hard Spun had won all four of his prior races in wire-to-wire fashion, and absolutely had the natural speed to get a much better position early on.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Believe me, the pace was so slow in that race, that Hard Spun certainly could have cleared.

To really get an idea of how slow the fractions were, go take a look at Uptothesky's form in race 3. He's basically a slowpoke, coming off of a 7th place finish in a 7.5K N2L life race last out--and a 8th beaten 23 lengths in a 5K N2L life two starts back.

Also, in four of his last five starts, he rated in 4th early on while going a route of ground.

He won wire-to-wire setting faster fractions than the Southwest winner.

Hard Spun had won all four of his prior races in wire-to-wire fashion, and absolutely had the natural speed to get a much better position early on.

Clearly, you do you homework, Drugs; and always offer support for your position. In most cases, the support is of the general case type.

If you watch the race again, you'll HAVE to notice that the horse breaks slowly AND takes a bad/funky step a few strides after. It takes him a bit to settle in stride. Wouldn't you think that the jock was wise to just let him settle and run on his own
RATHER than pushing him to get the lead before a very short run to the turn?

Throw the race out and, if you like him, give him another chance.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The Pletcher/Velazquez horse was the one who missed the break.

Hard Spun, from what I could see, was kept quiet in the pre-race, and it was pretty clear that the plan all along was to take him off the pace and to try and drop in.

IMO, his break was consistant with a horse who was being rated from the moment he left the gate.

In fact, I give the Oaklawn Park chart caller credit for picking that up. He has him breaking 6th of 9 in the field...and the comment of Hard Spun's running line starts "taken in hand at the start"

Okay

Let me get to a more serious issue:

what I really find annoying is the lack of consistency between tracks in terms of information presentation.

for example, in most cases, there's no stretch fraction for mile races

OAK is an exception, however.

So I have to add code to cover this for those rare cases when I want to chart a OAK race