Pandagon

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

Of course, she doesn't quite have the labia to say something offensive to muslims, as many more of those folks would do more than send her some nasty e-mails (see eg van Gogh).

Because of course, radical Christianists NEVER resort to violence
A) Doctors who perform abortions
B) Bosnia
C) Matthew Sheppard's killers (what religion do you think they claimed to be?)
D) That dude in upstate New York who torched a church because he didn't feel it was teaching the right kind of Christianity

B, the reason liberal bloggers don't tend to go after Muslims is because, frankly, radical Islamism is not the issue in THIS country that radical Christianism is (NOT Christianity, so don't start yellin' at me, Timm. These are a very special breed of people who claim to be Christian). We just don't have that many Arab Muslims compared to say, Southeast Asian Muslims, and they're just different (I should know, my stepbrothers are both Muslim and were born in Cambodia- NOT the same kind of Islam). Big "C" conservative bloggers don't want to offend their base, so they ignore how destructive radical religion is, no matter what religion it is. Christianity is the majority faith in this nation, and we just have more radical Christianists than we do any other faith here.

(Europe, on the other hand, has a bigger population of radical Islamists, and should be very concerned.)

Small "c" conservative blogger John Cole followed the Marcotte/Donohue thing. I'll post the link to most of the pertinent stuff (I think you'll like it; he hates both of them) but I think the money quote about the whole matter was this:

<<Meanwhile, the disgusting Catholic ******* Bill Donohue still retains the wide support of these folks, apparently, because they have done nothing to beat him down. And that is how the game is played, these days, I guess. Bill Donohue, who is more disgusting and has a bigger audience than either of these two women, will face no scrutiny, will not be held to task for the disgusting and truly stupid things he says, because he is on the “right” side. I mean, after all, the man attended Just Us Sunday and worked to keep Schiavo on life support and hates gays and Jews and Democrats and Hollywood- this is our kind of guy!

Color me unimpressed.

Dear Republicans- it is ok to despise nuts like Donohue and nuts like Marcotte. I do it every day. There is no contradiction. In fact, the party will be better off if you would throw aside our nuts- but you won’t, if for no other reason that the Republican party is now so insane itself that it can not recognize that Donohue is, in fact, nuts.>>

Here's the links to his comments. I like the guy's posts- I don't agree with it all, but he's smart and funny and a Steelers fan, so s'all good. And he was smart enough to pair himself with a very liberal blogger so the site isn't all one-sided and they seem to be great friends.

http://balloon-juice.com/index.php?s=marcotte
http://balloon-juice.com/index.php?s=donohue

And B, mad props for use of " doesn't quite have the labia." Virtual high-five to you!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Big "C" conservative bloggers don't want to offend their base, so they ignore how destructive radical religion is, no matter what religion it is.

I disagree here on this one, because I think that many of these bloggers/columnists/gasbags are the ones responsible for this utterly insane overhyped fear of Muslims, who they now endearingly refer to en masse as "Islamofascists."

If you're able to make one group the bogeyman, then it's easier to turn a blind eye to other religions.

Things like your examples. We don't have to address those because we can say, "LOOK! They fly planes into buildings." [read: LOOK! We bomb abortion clinics and fly planes loaded with bombs over innocent people in countries halfway around the world in the name of good] "LOOK! Their holy book says to kill homosexuals." [read: LOOK! Our holy book says to stone to death any number of people for any number of minor infractions, but we can explain that one away by circumventing it.] "LOOK! We elected one of them to Congress and he will try to institute Sharia in our country, grab your burqu'as ladies!" [read: LOOK! We are misogynists most of the time.]

Now, I don't believe that Christianity is bad by itself, but let's stop pretending that radical any-religion is any less dangerous than radicalism from another religion.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I disagree here on this one, because I think that many of these bloggers/columnists/gasbags are the ones responsible for this utterly insane overhyped fear of Muslims, who they now endearingly refer to en masse as "Islamofascists."

If you're able to make one group the bogeyman, then it's easier to turn a blind eye to other religions.

Things like your examples. We don't have to address those because we can say, "LOOK! They fly planes into buildings." [read: LOOK! We bomb abortion clinics and fly planes loaded with bombs over innocent people in countries halfway around the world in the name of good] "LOOK! Their holy book says to kill homosexuals." [read: LOOK! Our holy book says to stone to death any number of people for any number of minor infractions, but we can explain that one away by circumventing it.] "LOOK! We elected one of them to Congress and he will try to institute Sharia in our country, grab your burqu'as ladies!" [read: LOOK! We are misogynists most of the time.]

Now, I don't believe that Christianity is bad by itself, but let's stop pretending that radical any-religion is any less dangerous than radicalism from another religion.

I don't think we're actually in disagreement about this one, though- I agree that right-wing bloggers (with the exceptions of John Cole and a few others) are turning a blind-eye to Christianists. Why? Because they don't want to alienate their readers/listeners, who don't get the difference between Christianists and your average run-of-the-mill Christian. And said that I think the left-leaning bloggers regard radical Christianism as a bigger threat to the US than radical Islamism.

I agree that right-wing bloggers, media gasbags, etc. have happily turned Muslims into the boogey man, but I don't see what that has to do with why left-wing bloggers discuss radical Christianism.

I read an interesting article yesterday on fear and certainty- that the more we're afraid of something, the more we desperately want to be certain about it. Makes me look at gasbags like O'Reilly and think, "chicken."

[brianwspencer]

ps I still love Pandagon

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

ps I still love Pandagon

Hey Brian,
Excuse me for coming to this thread a bit confused.
I'd like a link to the Donahue "speak".
Is this the blog you are referencing?
http://pandagon.net/2007/02/20/bigot...undamentalist/

Thanks for your tolerence.
btw, I can only read what you and GR say. The other person is on my permanent ignore, for obvious reasons.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Hey Brian,
Excuse me for coming to this thread a bit confused.
I'd like a link to the Donahue "speak".
Is this the blog you are referencing?
http://pandagon.net/2007/02/20/bigot...undamentalist/

Thanks for your tolerence.
btw, I can only read what you and GR say. The other person is on my permanent ignore, for obvious reasons.

The one you posted is a fine example of why I love Pandagon. I don't care if they use trashy language at times. They call people out for things, and they call them out in the same ways I see it, so I like them.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200702070005#20070207

That is just a short list of some of the gems right from the mouth of William Donahue. He is postively among the finest scum on the Earth.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

The one you posted is a fine example of why I love Pandagon. I don't care if they use trashy language at times. They call people out for things, and they call them out in the same ways I see it, so I like them.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200702070005#20070207

That is just a short list of some of the gems right from the mouth of William Donahue. He is postively among the finest scum on the Earth.

Brian,
Thanks for the link. Interesting read.
I wonder what Donahue's views on the Bishop of Boston's defense of the priests molestations of altar boys would be.
This guy seems to have all the excuses.
How much has the Catholic Church paid out to litigants and lawyers?
It amazes me that there are some that take him seriously in his defence of the harlot, Babylon.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

ps I still love Pandagon

And no one is saying you shouldn't.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

I'm talking about Marcotte, specifically. Her critques, comments and writings go well beyond stuff happening only in the USA. For example, while she is very fond of wailing about the Catholic church being "misogynist", she is quite silent wrt similar or worse things in Islam. That, my friend, is borne from cowardice and/or bigotry.

As for Donahue. I don't know about him and could really care less. His involvement came long after Marcotte said what she did and long after her trying to cover it up. Simply because he got in front of the media on this doesn't make what she said any less offensive and doesn't make her any less of a coward or bigot.



For some reason, I just don't see it catching on...but I'll try.

B, Donohue has been in front of the media long before this mess- click on the mediamatters link and you'll see he's a regular on Scarborough, Hardball, etc. He reaches far, far more people than Marcotte and the other woman put together, and the stuff he spouts is pretty awful. Read the quotes. Just because you don't care to know about the guy doesn't mean you shouldn't- if you're going to discuss him, know what he's saying.

The Catholic Church has considerably more power in the US than any Islamic organization. Why is it cowardly for her to focus on the big gun and not the peashooter? If anything, it takes less courage to lambast (lambaste?) Islam here, since oodles of your average Americans are perfectly happy to fling around the term "towelhead." I've seen it on this forum. But they aren't so likely to yell "Papist" at a Catholic these days. (Though I have a Floridian friend who makes no bones about the fact that she thinks Catholics are going to Hell. She's Presbyterian, I think.)

(For the record, I think both the Catholic Church and Islam are pretty backward in their views on women and am perfectly happy to see either one taken to task for it.)

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

He is merely tangential to my point. See above.



I said she is a coward and/or a bigot. Maybe she isn't a coward. Just a bigot. And as I said before, she is interested in topics far more reaching that what is going on in the US.

Right, but B, you're essentially defending his position and I'm saying, just look at who you're defending. He's a lackey for the GOP, and seized on things the woman posted BEFORE she started working for Edwards as an opportunity to put the Edwards campaign at a disadvantage (and all his claims that Edwards is a good man doesn't disguise what his real agenda was- to cause trouble for the campaign of a Democrat). Yes, she's responsible for what she's written, but then I guess one has to say, should that affect the job she does for Edwards? If she started posting inflammatory rhetoric under the auspices of his campaign, fine, but these things were posted separately from her job for Edwards.

Clearly conservative Christians had no problem letting go of the fact that Reagan was a divorcé when they voted for him, despite divorce being a sin in their religion. I think the question is, how much should a person's actions or words separate from or prior to a job be allowed to affect whether they keep that job?

And I cannot figure out why a blogger that (rightly, in many cases) points out hypocricies in right-wing church organizations is automatically obligated to do the same with Islam. Why is she required to do that?

Look, ultimately we're all bigots about something ("Bigot" being someone intolerant of opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from one's own). I have no understanding for the Muslim hajib (headscarf) because I consider it a symbol of a culture that believe men aren't responsible for controlling their sexual desires (I'm just as bigoted about people who say a raped woman was "asking for it" because she was in a short skirt). I think we all have something we're intolerant about. But to say that she's a bigot, and choose to completely ignore and in fact, expressly avoid reading, bigoted comments by the man you are in essence defending, seems a wee bit disingenuous, wouldn't you say? What is it you're afraid to learn about Donohue?

As John Cole said, there's room to hate them both. Learning what a complete a*shole he is doesn't mean you'll automatically start reading Pandagon.