hillary or osama er bama....

[Cannon Shell]

Here is a bit about the state of Hillary's state in regards to her pet project of healthcare.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2006/1012medicaid.htm

[Cannon Shell]

I would have to say that I am still waiting for Hillary's impact to be felt in NY. Though she travels (campaigns?) extensively as junior senator in NY she has accomplished virtually nothing. She is strictly a politician of the polls and she choose NY as it is the most liberal leaning major state outside of CA where she can maintain a high profile. She has pissed off far left-liberals by moving to the right on issues when the polls say so and is pretty much universally hated by the right no matter what. I personally think that she would be the worst choice by Democrats as she is sure to mobilize the now shaken republicians to a common goal of beating her. Of course Kerry or Gore might be as bad but I dont think anyone is giving them a real chance.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would have to say that I am still waiting for Hillary's impact to be felt in NY. Though she travels (campaigns?) extensively as junior senator in NY she has accomplished virtually nothing. She is strictly a politician of the polls and she choose NY as it is the most liberal leaning major state outside of CA where she can maintain a high profile. She has pissed off far left-liberals by moving to the right on issues when the polls say so and is pretty much universally hated by the right no matter what. I personally think that she would be the worst choice by Democrats as she is sure to mobilize the now shaken republicians to a common goal of beating her. Of course Kerry or Gore might be as bad but I dont think anyone is giving them a real chance.

Cannon: thanks for posting the links....Pgardn was right. Hillary IS a doer....and NY was DONE!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Here is a bit about the state of Hillary's state in regards to her pet project of healthcare.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2006/1012medicaid.htm

News for you Cannon-- Hillary has NO control over how NYState's Medicare and Medicaid is administered. What party has been in charge of NY State over the past decade? Oh, riiiiiight....

Oh, while we're on the subject, which party pushed through the big increase in Medicare with that giveaway to the drug companies? Riiiiiight....

(Which is not to say NY's health care isn't completely f*cked up, but to imply that's Hillary's fault is absurd)

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

News for you Cannon-- Hillary has NO control over how NYState's Medicare and Medicaid is administered. What party has been in charge of NY State over the past decade? Oh, riiiiiight....

Oh, while we're on the subject, which party pushed through the big increase in Medicare with that giveaway to the drug companies? Riiiiiight....

(Which is not to say NY's health care isn't completely f*cked up, but to imply that's Hillary's fault is absurd)

GR: I don't think his intention was to blame her,,,just to show that she's not the mover and shaker she perports to be!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

GR: I don't think his intention was to blame her,,,just to show that she's not the mover and shaker she perports to be!

And he may have excellent stuff to back that up, but other than getting earmarks for their states, Senators don't have a lot of control over their state economy and their state's health plans; that power belongs to the state representatives and governor (and even they don't have much control in some cases). A better example, really, would be of her wussy yes-and-no weird vote on the flag-burning thing. I mean, take a position, lady!

(Now, see how easy that was?)

"purports"

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

GR: I don't think his intention was to blame her,,,just to show that she's not the mover and shaker she perports to be!

I dont know what she says about herself. I know what I have heard from friends and relatives that work for Corning, and they have given me examples of other companies that she has worked with. Then I heard about much of the stuff on NPR that my relatives had already told me about. OOPs NPR and my relatives cant be trusted. And how did you get your information that she does nothing? And if Canon has not felt her effects directly I can tell you that I have not felt any effects directly of our great senators in the State of Texas, Kay Bailey and John Cornyn. So because Canon has not felt direct effects she has done nothing... Hmmmm.

Bottom line Timm: you may not like her, but the lady gets work done. I can understand why people do not like her poll watching. But do not confuse this with her willingness to work her rear off to get things accomplished instead of JUST playing the critic, like many Democratic candidates.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I dont know what she says about herself. I know what I have heard from friends and relatives that work for Corning, and they have given me examples of other companies that she has worked with. Then I heard about much of the stuff on NPR that my relatives had already told me about. OOPs NPR and my relatives cant be trusted. And how did you get your information that she does nothing? And if Canon has not felt her effects directly I can tell you that I have not felt any effects directly of our great senators in the State of Texas, Kay Bailey and John Cornyn. So because Canon has not felt direct effects she has done nothing... Hmmmm.

Bottom line Timm: you may not like her, but the lady gets work done. I can understand why people do not like her poll watching. But do not confuse this with her willingness to work her rear off to get things accomplished instead of JUST playing the critic, like many Democratic candidates.

It is simple really. Just tell me what tangible positive effect Senator Clinton has had on the citizens of NY. Maybe I missed somwething but no one that I know that lives in NY can think of one thing.

[PSH]

I am a die hard Democrat and it is painfully obvious that Hillary is not electable. Not even a discussion here....

PSH

[timmgirvan]

GR/Brian: Let's wrap this thing up....Liz Michael does sound like a whackjob! But it was a list. As I said, there are others. McDougal wasn't finished testifying with Starr, having being visited last by Susan McDougal before his death. You may blithely disregard these happenings as revengeful political rantings, but I assure that's not the situation with me. The probability of all these things happening around the Clintons' is astronomical,but doesn't make that irreffutable, it draws a circle around the actions of a political machine that won't stop for 2nd place. The recent attacks on Obama,Kerry and others point to the sublety of actions(at whatever price) and her rushed announcement of her candidacy(?)is Modus operandi for this group. But, heh, I just won't vote for her! Pardon my Interruption...I'm just tired of the whole scene right now. btw...Brian: I wasn't denigrating your youth...just the time frame of your reference. Cheers!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

GR/Brian: Let's wrap this thing up....Liz Michael does sound like a whackjob! But it was a list. As I said, there are others. McDougal wasn't finished testifying with Starr, having being visited last by Susan McDougal before his death. You may blithely disregard these happenings as revengeful political rantings, but I assure that's not the situation with me. The probability of all these things happening around the Clintons' is astronomical,but doesn't make that irreffutable, it draws a circle around the actions of a political machine that won't stop for 2nd place. The recent attacks on Obama,Kerry and others point to the sublety of actions(at whatever price) and her rushed announcement of her candidacy(?)is Modus operandi for this group. But, heh, I just won't vote for her! Pardon my Interruption...I'm just tired of the whole scene right now. btw...Brian: I wasn't denigrating your youth...just the time frame of your reference. Cheers!

Fair enough. I just don't buy it, and have yet to run across anything that would make me change my mind into thinking that somehow the Clintons value their machine to the point of ensuring that people are killed for it. You'd think that $70 million in two senate campaigns against her would have been able to produce some tangible evidence of it. All you'd have to do is prove that they were behind even one of those deaths and her career would be over. Nobody can do that even with $70 million? Pardon my subsequent skepticism.

I'm sure there will be plenty more of these conversations in the coming year or two, so no need to rush for now

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

GR/Brian: Let's wrap this thing up....Liz Michael does sound like a whackjob! But it was a list. As I said, there are others. McDougal wasn't finished testifying with Starr, having being visited last by Susan McDougal before his death. You may blithely disregard these happenings as revengeful political rantings, but I assure that's not the situation with me. The probability of all these things happening around the Clintons' is astronomical,but doesn't make that irreffutable, it draws a circle around the actions of a political machine that won't stop for 2nd place. The recent attacks on Obama,Kerry and others point to the sublety of actions(at whatever price) and her rushed announcement of her candidacy(?)is Modus operandi for this group. But, heh, I just won't vote for her! Pardon my Interruption...I'm just tired of the whole scene right now. btw...Brian: I wasn't denigrating your youth...just the time frame of your reference. Cheers!

You're so cute with your conspiracy theories, Timm. Really, I find it kind of endearing, even though I don't buy conspiracy theories. For example, I don't think the Bush gov't planned 9/11- In light of the past six years, I can't see those bozos being competent enough to pull that off. Because if they had, I would assume they'd have been smart enough to coach GW how to behave when he got the news, so he wouldn't have sat for 8 minutes staring off into space.

And I find it hilarious that the Clinton and the Bush death lists both include Ron Brown.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is simple really. Just tell me what tangible positive effect Senator Clinton has had on the citizens of NY. Maybe I missed somwething but no one that I know that lives in NY can think of one thing.

A short blurb from my Sister-in-Law who works for Corning.

In April 2003, a month after Corning's political action committee gave $10,000 to her re-election campaign, Mrs. Clinton announced legislation that provided hundreds of millions in federal aid to reduce diesel pollution, using, among other things, technology pioneered by Corning. It was one of several Congressional initiatives Mrs. Clinton has pushed that benefit the company.

And in April 2004, Mrs. Clinton began a push to persuade the Chinese government to relax tariffs on Corning fiber optics products, inviting the Chinese ambassador to her office and personally asking President Bush for help in the matter. One month after the beginning of that ultimately successful effort, Corning's chairman, James Houghton, held a fund-raiser at his home that collected tens of thousands of dollars for her re-election campaign....

Corning ... and its employees contributed $137,000 from the time she was elected in 2000 through the end of 2005...

So business got a lot better and the workers felt very gratified. First Democrat to ever receive money from Corning. Heck, 10,000 bucks, they just loaded her up didnt they Cannon? Drop in the bucket compared to what Rep. received from this company. BTW, Clinton intitiated the contact after reading about the problem and before any money came in for her re-election. So you did not benefit and no one you know has... I guess that covers NY.

Again it is very easy to criticize and not find anything positive about the party or person you dont particularly like. So we play this game of destruction instead of asking about anything positive. Which is exactly why politicians use Ads to slay opponents, instead of stating what they have done and will do. Its much easier to bust a bridge apart than to build one. Thats why I hate politics. Because as one reads this thread, it is clear that kicking is easier than applying a cast.

Its the same thing Dems do with Iraq. And your plan? Oh... the plans start to arise after Bush has made a decision about how to clean up a mess. But first all we do is just scream about the mess, with now idea how to clean the mess up.
Just leave Iraq immediately. Quite a plan... Very well thought out. Less well thought out than the plan to send only 120,000 troops in the first place, when 350,000 were recommended by a number of Generals. How many Democrats stood up and said this is clearly not enough troops after voting yes...?
I prefer builders, not destroyers. So lets see the smearing continue... because its so damn easy.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

i suggest you read "inside the clinton white house'......trailer trash in the white house...lmfao...and osama..hes never going to get the popular vote...

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by pgardn

A short blurb from my Sister-in-Law who works for Corning.

In April 2003, a month after Corning's political action committee gave $10,000 to her re-election campaign, Mrs. Clinton announced legislation that provided hundreds of millions in federal aid to reduce diesel pollution, using, among other things, technology pioneered by Corning. It was one of several Congressional initiatives Mrs. Clinton has pushed that benefit the company.

And in April 2004, Mrs. Clinton began a push to persuade the Chinese government to relax tariffs on Corning fiber optics products, inviting the Chinese ambassador to her office and personally asking President Bush for help in the matter. One month after the beginning of that ultimately successful effort, Corning's chairman, James Houghton, held a fund-raiser at his home that collected tens of thousands of dollars for her re-election campaign....

Corning ... and its employees contributed $137,000 from the time she was elected in 2000 through the end of 2005...

So business got a lot better and the workers felt very gratified. First Democrat to ever receive money from Corning. Heck, 10,000 bucks, they just loaded her up didnt they Cannon? Drop in the bucket compared to what Rep. received from this company. BTW, Clinton intitiated the contact after reading about the problem and before any money came in for her re-election. So you did not benefit and no one you know has... I guess that covers NY.

Again it is very easy to criticize and not find anything positive about the party or person you dont particularly like. So we play this game of destruction instead of asking about anything positive. Which is exactly why politicians use Ads to slay opponents, instead of stating what they have done and will do. Its much easier to bust a bridge apart than to build one. Thats why I hate politics. Because as one reads this thread, it is clear that kicking is easier than applying a cast.

Its the same thing Dems do with Iraq. And your plan? Oh... the plans start to arise after Bush has made a decision about how to clean up a mess. But first all we do is just scream about the mess, with now idea how to clean the mess up.
Just leave Iraq immediately. Quite a plan... Very well thought out. Less well thought out than the plan to send only 120,000 troops in the first place, when 350,000 were recommended by a number of Generals. How many Democrats stood up and said this is clearly not enough troops after voting yes...?
I prefer builders, not destroyers. So lets see the smearing continue... because its so damn easy.

It's a fair point about the Dems and Iraq, pgardn, and while I'm sure there's a great deal of schadenfreude, watching Bush, after all his nasty, divisive campaigns, imploding in on his own incompetency, it sure isn't helping the situation over there.

If you were a Dem, (or a Repub, for that matter, in this hypothetical it doesn't matter) with a great interest in keeping your job, what would you do in this situation? A majority of Americans want the troops out now, and the situation over there be damned. Any sort of increase in troops is a hugely unpopular decision. So, how would you go about stating your case that what is needed is more young men and women over there? I don't mean this as an accusation, so no throwing insults, Bababooyee (teasing wink). It's a real question.

(I agree with the position, by the way, that more troops were needed, not fewer, but I think the time was back in 2003 and I'm not sure if it would make any difference now. I wonder if the Dems are sitting back and watching the thing implode because they really have no idea how to fix this mess. I don't.)

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

i like to refer to her as ol beer keg legs...lol

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

And, fwiw, I was steeped in conspiracy theories in the early to mid 90s, and have heard all about the Klintons and Arkansas Suicides. I've also followed many of the current Bush conspiracy theories.

Stepping back from the actual content and looking at the whole thing more broadly, it is interesting how those on the right bought the Klinton stuff and those on the left were unshakingly skeptical; now, those on the left buy the Bush stuff and those on the right are unshakingly skeptical. (Ima sure one could write an interesting book on the effect the information age has had on conspiracy theories, increased numbers of them and/or their wider dissemination).

For example, I don't see you (or brian to a lesser extent) being nearly as skeptical or critical when DTS starts posting his moronic links or crazy (and/or substance induced) rants. But someone says something against a Clinton, and...

And please consider that I used you (GR) and brian as my examples as a compliment; while you may lean left, you both seem rather intelligent, so I kinda expect more than from the average leftist.

I'll respond later, because it's an understandable accusation, but I have to go to vocal coaching and scare a few people with my "singing"...