CONTESSA: "..wanted to throw up"

kentuckyrosesinmay · #1 01-12-2007, 09:58 AM

Now that we have the riding instructions and the trainer comments, then I admit that Ramon made a bad decision.

However, what Ramon thought would happen about the hole opening up was what I said in the other thread that he thought would happen. He just made the wrong decision that didn't pay off this time. A lot of other times, it would have proven to be the right decision as a hole would have opened. If the hole would have opened, no one would have been complaining about his ride.

JJP · #2 01-12-2007, 10:01 AM

That ride was suspiciously bad. IMO, worse than what Ferrer did at Hawthorne last October.

#3 01-12-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Now that we have the riding instructions and the trainer comments, then I admit that Ramon made a bad decision.

However, what Ramon thought would happen about the hole opening up was what I said in the other thread that he thought would happen. He just made the wrong decision that didn't pay off this time. A lot of other times, it would have proven to be the right decision as a hole would have opened. If the hole would have opened, no one would have been complaining about his ride.

I agree. RD didnt follow instructions at all. Therefore, it was a bad ride. I understand RD's thinking, but he has to follow directions or be 100% positive that he is able to get the rail.

cmorioles · #4 01-12-2007, 03:53 PM

The whole instructions things is a joke anyway. When the gate opens, nothing is really that predictable. Personally, I would say just trust the jockey to do the right thing given the circumstances. If I didn't trust him, why is he on my horse?

Downthestretch55 · #5 01-12-2007, 04:36 PM

I should keep my mouth shut.
I should keep my mouth shut.
I should keep my mouth shut.
100X

I can't resist.
Steve's post said it.
Yes, we all make mistakes. Excuses are for losers doncha know?
Winners don't need to create them, cause they won.
Yes, RD shoulda, coulda, woulda followed instructions. No question.
Did he blow a race that this one had been trained to? No question.
So, ask yourself after reading what he said back to Contessa in Steve's first post, if you saw a jock working on his horse, both hands, and expected that it would come out, where would you go? In other words, if they were going to go wide and open a hole inside, where do you think you'd take your horse?
Decisions on the track are made in a blink. Sometimes they look brilliant, and sometimes they look like a complete and total F-up.
Cut RD a break. We all F-up!

I should keep my mouth shut.
I should keep my mouth shut.
I should keep my mouth shut.

ninetoone · #6 01-12-2007, 04:47 PM

Well said DTS....and on that point, if a hole had opened up on the rail & Ramon had taken his horse too wide, we'd have a thread about why he should have taken the rail. Even if we had the information about the instructions, we'd have people whining about how those are "just a guide" or something to that effect...he should have used his judgement...blah blah blah. Come back and look at this thread in 5 years & see what Ramon has accomplished. We'll probably all be wondering why we were talking so much about a 3/5 shot in an AOC race at Aqueduct on a Thursday.

blackthroatedwind · #7 01-12-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninetoone

Well said DTS....and on that point, if a hole had opened up on the rail & Ramon had taken his horse too wide, we'd have a thread about why he should have taken the rail. Even if we had the information about the instructions, we'd have people whining about how those are "just a guide" or something to that effect...he should have used his judgement...blah blah blah. Come back and look at this thread in 5 years & see what Ramon has accomplished. We'll probably all be wondering why we were talking so much about a 3/5 shot in an AOC race at Aqueduct on a Thursday.

What happens in the future for Ramon Dominguez has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether or not yesterday's ride was a poor one. It is interesting that the defenders of Mr. Dominguez continue to make these sort of comments as though there is any relevance to them whatsoever. If he were to win with 100% of his mounts the rest of his riding career yesterday's ride would still remain one of the single most puzzlingly stupid decisions in riding history. It is really only more baffling because Mr. Dominguez is a talented rider. If the worst rider in America had done what he did yesterday it still would have been wrong and somewhat baffling. But, to have a successful rider, even if he is overrated, make the choice he did will forever be mystifying.

Once again, even if the rail had opened for him it would have been a poor ride, and understanding that is important if one is to truly understand horseracing. Results are not nearly as important as how one gets there. That's what seperates winners from losers.

Rupert Pupkin · #8 01-12-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What happens in the future for Ramon Dominguez has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether or not yesterday's ride was a poor one. It is interesting that the defenders of Mr. Dominguez continue to make these sort of comments as though there is any relevance to them whatsoever. If he were to win with 100% of his mounts the rest of his riding career yesterday's ride would still remain one of the single most puzzlingly stupid decisions in riding history. It is really only more baffling because Mr. Dominguez is a talented rider. If the worst rider in America had done what he did yesterday it still would have been wrong and somewhat baffling. But, to have a successful rider, even if he is overrated, make the choice he did will forever be mystifying.

Once again, even if the rail had opened for him it would have been a poor ride, and understanding that is important if one is to truly understand horseracing. Results are not nearly as important as how one gets there. That's what seperates winners from losers.

100% correct.

ninetoone · #9 01-12-2007, 05:07 PM

[quote=blackthroatedwind]If he were to win with 100% of his mounts the rest of his riding career yesterday's ride would still remain one of the single most puzzlingly stupid decisions in riding history. QUOTE]

You've got to be kidding me. I'm sure you've watched many more races than I have, so I hope I don't need to tell you that the type of scenario that happenned on Thursday happens every single day & every single "great" rider has done something similar or much worse. I've watched the replay several times now, and I can't believe how blown out of proportion this thread has become. He made a bad decision, no doubt. It's worse because he had instructions to do otherwise. If this was "one of the single most puzzlingly stupid decisions in riding history", he'd certainly be losing some business because of it....and believe me, that aint gonna happen.

brianwspencer · #10 01-12-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

would still remain one of the single most puzzlingly stupid decisions in riding history.

terrible ride? yes.

but, my goodness, you just took hyperbole to an unprecedented level.

paisjpq · #11 01-12-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

But the question remains why make it harder for yourself? Why not just go outside, as per Contessa's instructions? Why even try and make an inside run in a 5 horse field where 2 of the runners were already hopelessly beaten?

how about we consider the idea that Ramon was trying to look like hot sh*t and his plan backfired...and then he had to go cover his sorry ride with an angry trainer...whose instructions he failed to follow.
not too different than a child who makes a bad decision and then tries to lie to mom and dad...

blackthroatedwind · #12 01-12-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

how about we consider the idea that Ramon was trying to look like hot sh*t and his plan backfired...and then he had to go cover his sorry ride with an angry trainer...whose instructions he failed to follow.
not too different than a child who makes a bad decision and then tries to lie to mom and dad...

Yup.

ManilaRose · #13 01-12-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

how about we consider the idea that Ramon was trying to look like hot sh*t and his plan backfired...and then he had to go cover his sorry ride with an angry trainer...whose instructions he failed to follow.
not too different than a child who makes a bad decision and then tries to lie to mom and dad...

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what he was thinking. Nothing makes you look more like "hot sh*t" than coming up the rail to win a race. lol

kentuckyrosesinmay · #14 01-12-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

But the question remains why make it harder for yourself? Why not just go outside, as per Contessa's instructions? Why even try and make an inside run in a 5 horse field where 2 of the runners were already hopelessly beaten?

Since he disobeyed Contessa's instructions, then it was a bad ride. Again, if a hole would have opened up, it wouldn't have been considered a bad ride at all.

#15 01-12-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Since he disobeyed Contessa's instructions, then it was a bad ride. Again, if a hole would have opened up, it wouldn't have been considered a bad ride at all.

Go to the inside of two horses in a five horse field is ok?

kentuckyrosesinmay · #16 01-12-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Go to the inside of two horses in a five horse field is ok? What planet are you from?

It depends on what the trainer's instructions are, and how much horse the rider has.

#17 01-12-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

It depends on what the trainer's instructions are.

But you just insinuated if he would've won the race going inside that it makes it ok, regardless of trainer instructions.

JJP · #18 01-12-2007, 10:21 AM

It tells me Ramon does not do his homework before the race. Any jock who's worth a damn has handicapped the race, knows where he should be early on, AND IS AWARE OF THE FIELD SIZE. For him to try to go inside horses in a 5 horse field is laughable. The ride was either corrupt, or just plain stupid.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #19 01-12-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

But you just insinuated if he would've won the race going inside that it makes it ok, regardless of trainer instructions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

But you just insinuated if he would've won the race going inside that it makes it ok, regardless of trainer instructions.

No, no one would have never known if it was or wasn't okay for Ramon to do what he did because the story wouldn't have blown up like it has. The only reason that we know it wasn't okay for him to do that in the first place is that a hole didn't open and he didn't win the race.

Sometimes, things happen in races and jockeys can't follow trainers instructions. However, I believe that they should try to follow them as closely as possible in any given race.

Going to the inside in a small field also depends on how much horse the rider has. If you don't have a whole lot of horse, but could possibly win the race by going inside and saving a little bit of ground, then go inside.

#20 01-12-2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Going to the inside in a small field also depends on how much horse the rider has. If you don't have a whole lot of horse, but could possibly win the race by going inside and saving a little bit of ground, then go inside.

Yeah and it's obvious from the replay Ramon didn't have enough horse.